Parramatta Eels 24
Manly Sea Eagles 36
Manly Sea Eagles 36
The Good: |
I thought I’d do this week’s The Good in alphabetical order:
END OF LIST.
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The Bad: |
In the middle part of the game, through the middle of the field, our middle defence fell apart like the core of a NSW apartment complex. The end scoreline flattered us. The Sea Eagles scored 6 of their 7 tries in a horrific, car crash-esque half hour stretch, stretching from the 25th minute to the 58th minute. The players, coaching staff and every fan with Blue & Gold coursing through their veins would be particularly concerned by our forward pack’s inability to wrestle back the momentum of a game once it starts to be taken from us. This dreadful stretch no doubt revived
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The X-Factor: |
Does anyone remember when Manly were supposed to be terrible? Seems like a lifetime ago.
The surprisingly pristine conditions of the much maligned I am reliably informed that missing 24 tackles to 6, conceding 4 linebreaks to none, and allowing your opposition to run for 1016 metres to your 428 is a remarkably poor way to compete in 40 minutes of football; but that’s exactly what the Eels did in the first half this afternoon. As you can probably guess, those numbers got a little closer when you add in the second 40 minutes (33 to 22; 5 to 4; 1746 to 1335), but the game was already well wrapped up by that stage. Manly were straight up the better team today, at times by a wide margin. |
The MVP: |
Any Eels fan who watched the entire game without turning or dropping their head in disgust. You the real MVP. |
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1- Clint Gutherson (c)Fullback, Parramatta Eels |
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| Gutho was straight up bad for most of the first 40 minutes, seemingly mesmerised by the hypnotic prowess of his good mate Tom Trbojevic. Gutho’s ‘highlights’ include kicking it out on the full, getting out-jumped by his opposing number for a Manly try and throwing a head-shaking offload when we were coming out of our 20. Yuck.
Although the game was well lost by the time he found form, I guess some credit should go to him for his final 25 minutes of the game. He did lead the Eels in running metres (169), and was eventually pretty effective running from dummy half when the Eels somehow found the front foot. Let’s just say old mate on Twitter wasn’t so forgiving:
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2- Maika SivoLeft Wing, Parramatta Eels |
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| Maika Sivo played ok, but that first Manly try is a textbook demonstration of why there are concerns about our left edge defensively. On the other hand, it’s not ridiculous to suggest that Maika is still very much learning the ropes of being an NRL footballer, and perhaps we should save our most significant judgment for when his parter in crime, Michael Jennings, returns. Sweet put down for our final try, though. | ||
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3- Brad TakairangiLeft Centre, Parramatta Eels |
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In an almost exact replica of his first four pointer last week, it was just another day at the office for Brad “Try Scoring Wizard” Takairangi. Other than the four pointer and some much needed charges out of our red zone, Taka didn’t really feature this afternoon. Come to think of it, that’s probably for the best. |
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4- Josh HoffmanRight Centre, Parramatta Eels |
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I could pretty much copy and paste this same comment every week: Josh Hoffman tries hard and is good back up. Today’s 9 runs for 81 metres and 18 tackles doesn’t really move the needle either way for mine. |
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21- Ethan ParryRight Wing, Parramatta Eels |
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Well, today was one of those “Welcome to the NRL, son” moments. On one hand, completely against the run of play and the result of sheer enthusiasm, Ethan Parry bagged his first four pointer in his first ever NRL game. Hats off to him, very well deserved. In the next breath, the young bloke gets beaten one and one by freakin’ Brad Parker and later passed the ball high enough to somehow get it over Kane Evans’ shoulder. The NRL is a rough ride, but I’m glad Parry has got his first taste. I thought he was very strong overall, particularly for a bloke making his debut. To the surprise of absolutely no one who’s seen him come through the grades, Ethan took some big ass hit ups, straight into the teeth of the Manly defence. In short, I’m looking forward to many more years of this young bloke in the Blue & Gold. |
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6- Dylan BrownFive Eighth, Parramatta Eels |
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| Hey, I thought Dylan was once again solid defensively and made a very heads up play for Parry’s aforementioned first ever try in the NRL. The 19 year old also ran a silky smooth 152 metres from 12 hit ups, which is more than double Marata and Tepai’s combined run metres. Hate the 5 missed tackles all you want (I have no doubt Dylan will), but at the end of the day it was a pretty solid showing considering the Maroon and White avalanche, and it’s particularly encouraging considering it’s come on the back of a couple of pretty poor personal performances from Dyl. The little Brown also came away with 2 of our 3 try assists, which is handy.
I know this isn’t really the most natural time to be all positive, but I can’t wait until Dylan starts to put it all together. Only a fool would continue to deny this kid’s talent, and if you’re lucky you’ll find some of those people in the comments below. |
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7- Mitchell MosesHalfback, Parramatta Eels |
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| Game’s don’t always go to plan, but I thought Mitch’s capacity to stay in the fight was one of the (small) reasons the game didn’t turn into Round 2, 2018 again. The two kicks that preempted Taka’s try, one a 40/20, the other a try assisting grubber, were straight up brilliant. He also continues to knock over his conversions at a very high rate. This game wasn’t one of our finest hours, but personally I’m not blaming either one of our halves. | ||
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8- Kane EvansProp, Parramatta Eels |
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| I liked Kane’s enthusiasm early, but like the rest of the forward pack his form fell off a cliff in the meat of the game. The 12 runs for 96 metres aren’t the sort of stats he’d be putting on his CV, either. | ||
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9- Reed MahoneyHooker, Parramatta Eels |
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| A stat one might put on their CV, however, is Reed’s 53 tackles; putting him back at the top of the NRL’s tackling leader board. The Little Terrier also only missed 3 of those 53, which is an outstanding improvement.
I thought it was good he got a little bit of breather towards the end of the game too, nonetheless clocking up 72 minutes. In other news, I can’t help but wonder what would have happened if Reed’s pass for Gutho went backwards. You know, thinking of the good times. |
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10- Junior PauloProp, Parramatta Eels |
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| I mean, sure Big Junez had 14 runs, 104 metres, 21 tackles but with Manly’s heavy possession count, the tiring big man also had more first half arm grabbing than a Texan gun show. | ||
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11- Shaun LaneSecond Row, Parramatta Eels |
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I’m not exactly sure what’s happened to Shaun Lane in recent weeks, but for not the first time this year he has looked absolutely out on his feet at one stage, only to come back after half time looking hungry and invigorated. Late in the first half, I watched with dismay as my beloved simply jogged alongside Dylan Walker as the once accused made Manly’s 250th linebreak for the afternoon. As the Eels cover defence desperately scrambled, it was almost as if Shaun were a referee, like he was trying to avoid interfering in the play. I have little doubt Laney is an outstanding player, but he does often seem exhausted when the run of play turns the opposition’s way, and for mine his energised moments in the second half didn’t undo the sins of the first 40. |
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12- Manu Ma’uSecond Row, Parramatta Eels |
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Despite some pretty solid moments, I was pretty disappointed with Manu’s game today. I know he’ll want to make sure he goes out with a bang, and finishes strong in the Blue & Gold, so keep your eye on him in the coming weeks. As an aside, during the week I actually put Manu’s picture into that ageing FaceApp. Not only did he come out looking younger, he also somehow came out looking angrier. Would not recommend. |
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13- Nathan BrownLock, Parramatta Eels |
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| Despite him crossing almost untouched for a rare four pointer, I still think the most surprising part of Nathan Brown’s game today was that he only played 54 minutes. It must have been preordained, because his 30 tackles (missing only 1) doesn’t exactly scream defensive weak link. Make of it what you will, but like our halves, Cyborg wasn’t the problem today.
When you are low and life is making you lonely, you can always go Browntown. … That sounded better in my head. |
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14- Jaeman SalmonInterchange, Parramatta Eels |
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| I liked seeing him get a bit more game time (26 minutes), and think solidifying Jaeman’s role is another little question that needs answering before the end of Round 25. Fresh Atlantic got through 3 runs for 22 metres, and made 6 tackles. Sure, it’s not much, but it’s a start.
I thought you would also like to know that ‘Salmon’ is a Spanish term which means ‘the leaper’. You’re welcome. |
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15- Marata NiukoreInterchange, Parramatta Eels |
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| So just the 4 runs for 34 metres and 23 tackles then? | ||
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16- David GowerInterchange, Parramatta Eels |
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| Even in a dour afternoon for the Blue & Gold, words cannot convey my affections for David Gower. As such, check out this little ditty from Channel 9 instead.
Sixties also wrote a terrific article on David Gower this week, which is also infinitely better than anything I’d write here. Instead I’d simply like to post this terrific image of David Gower for you all to bask in, as well as his 36 minute, 9 runs for 91 metres and 25 tackle stat line. |
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17- Tepai MoeroaInterchange, Parramatta Eels |
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| The future Wallaby had basically the same stat line as Marata Niukore, but a little bit worse. Tep had 4 runs for 31 metres, 21 tackles and nothing else.
What a flat note to end Grades on. |
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The Eels will more than likely welcome Waqa Blake into the fold for our game against the Warriors, although we will apparently once again be without some bloke called Fergo. Swings and roundabouts.
Today wasn’t a win, but at least there’s plenty to learn. Pick yourselves back up and we’ll see you all Saturday afternoon at Bankwest Stadium as we take on the Warriors.
Go you Eels,
Mitch
Photos courtesy of the Parramatta Eels. Stats courtesy of the legends over at Champion Data.
Gowie tho 😍
What a mighty good man.
I’m really starting to wonder what David Kidwell does with the team at training because their inability to win the ruck and prevent off loads is embarrassing. We simply can’t slow down the play the ball without getting penalised and until we do we are just making up the numbers👎
This isn’t a bad shout – we are a terrible defensive side (4th worst in the comp).
I have to say we cannot go into next season with the same defensive coach. Seriously the club needs to look elsewhere to get a coach for that position who knows how to defend, and as a player defended well including playing in more than one spot.
I don’t know the processes, but I would like to see consideration given to have ex eels player Jim Dymock come in to that spot, he played in the forwards as lock, hooker, 2nd row, and even at 5/8 and not just attacked but tops in defending in each of those positions. I do not see any real improvement in the eels defence since he has had the job.
I remember reading Bellamy’s reference for Kidwell when he left the storm, was very glowing indeed, perhaps it was done that way to ensure he left.
Please forgive the negativity of this post. and the other one after todays loss, I guess I see the eels a better team than what was on show today.
Colin, your post was positive and not negative, and its obvious for all to see. Our defence is deplorable. What I can’t understand is how our forwards lie scattered all over the ground, like 10 pin bowling pins, and the tackled player is unhindered so they can quickly play the ball against a retreating defense thus heaping more pressure on our D line. Is it our tackling technique or our processes that our tacklers appear incapable of hanging onto the tackled player to slow down their ptb? Whatever it is it needs to change and quickly!
Legitimate concerns mate, well said.
What’s that saying, doing the same thing continually and expecting a different result is madness. The evidence to that is Kidwells defensive coaching results – proof is looking at Wests Tigers and NZ under his tutelage .
Inability to control the ruck and dominate In Tackles with either strength or technique, tends to lay at the feet of the coach controlling that aspect of play.
Surprised he was retained/ not moved on this year, really needs a fresh eye and approach for 2020.
Youll notice we defend like the tigers did a few years ago you will also notice the tigers defense sucked. David Kidwell was the defense coach.
Since he joined last year our edges have coincided an amazing amount of tries.
This doesn’t strike me as an unfair comment, either.
We played today like a team with players that wanted someone else to do the work, make the tackles, or even something as simple as get to marker. Sivo’s defence is fixable, with both experience and Jennings back. On the other hand our middle defence sadly is not fixable this year, with the current forwards we have. Thank the lord we are getting rid of a few.
The play that summed us up today was Manu’s late pass in the game to Ethan. Manu ran sideways away from the big forwards and ran himself out of room then dumped the ball onto Ethan who if he had caught it would have got smashed. Our edge 4 backrowers, throughout the game played terribly. Soft or non existent in attack and downright lazy in defence, could not even be bothered to get to marker. I agree with the grades for Lane and Manu. Love them both but really lacking effort today.
Junior and Kane Evans got caught in defence but at least they both tried in attack despite no one going with them.
I love BA but please give Oregon a go. Tepai is not in our future, Oregon is and surely he is better option. Did Tepai get to marker once?
On a positive both halves tried hard, Moses kept his cool and Dylan ran the ball. The positives are there, most of those lazy forwards and inconsistent outside backs from today will not be with us next year. Today showed why. Jennings, Blake and Fergo will make us much better but won’t help our middle against really good teams.
I cannot add anything to this above; spot on in all areas.
Our forwards today were avg and not all of them but as a collective unit they were poor. Enough said.
Defence for me has been avg all season. I know coaches coach and players play, but the technique / planning of tackling needs to be looked at; and I hate the word but ‘the wrestle’ etc. in the play the ball has been soft too often.
I am that angry at the moment as I hate, detest and loathe Manly but they are playing good football.
If we want to be top 4 we must get defence in order before anything else.
Don’t really enjoy Moeroa’s laziness and sloppy nature and he’s gone so leave him in reserve grade and bring in Kaufusi or Stefano.
Kaufusi needs to come to the NRL side once David Gower retires. His a young Front rower who could learn from player’s like Paulo n Nathan brown.
Rev, Paulo has to be the greatest under-achiever for his size and mass, Fonua Balke, made him look like a reserve grader at best, simply because he backs his size and runs hard. Paulo should watch FB’s video over and over and say I want to play like him.
Max fonua Blake is much taller then Paulo but has the same weight. N I don’t think he needs to go home n watch you tube n say I Wana be like him.
Not too sure regarding a few of the gradings, so will leave them alone. I sat in front of the box to watch the game. and started wandering around wondering about the time I spent trying to fathom it. Two early tries the first for a rookie who I thought did ok and the second seemed to be one that Taka had watched Parry do his KFC type of try, finger licken good;
As for the areas that concerned me, well there are several but, I wondered where on earth the form of the last few weeks have gone, maybe in Bali or somewhere soaking up the sun awaiting a Tsunami or something similar.
For me, I like the looks of Parry as a future NRL player, and likely in the centres, as for the centres today, well how much more does Hoffman have to play to learn the game especially staying where he’s meant to be and tackle, Mitch could you check your calculater to see if it adds up right. You say he made 18 tackles?????
I still stand amazed at the bombing of a try under the posts, please correct me if I am wrong with player names. Did I see Dylan Brown make a break inside our half and had two support players one on each side of him, and gets tackled with the ball? Two support players both in good position, and one on his right would have easily got under the posts, a big bombed try.
I ask about his big brother and his running style. I remember how he used to run hard and cause the defence headaches, even when he got to the defence he would take more metres before being pulled down unless he got the ball away. In recent times he seems to start his runs, and does so for some distance with very short or shimmy like runs, and by the time he gets to the defence his legs do not seem to give him that same power he used to show.
Watching MM today, I saw a different player to that of last week, not as good but he was likely our best, his goal kicking is still great also his variation in kicks is improving. I hoped for an Eels win but not surprised we lost but, for me the hard part was the way we lost. We could well have been closer to Manly in regard to the scoreline but it would have been a bit of a travesty to the gulls had that been the case, they were simply the better side on the day.
BA has indicated that Fergo was still in Hospital and wont be playing next week. Here’s hoping that MJ and perhaps Blake will be available to play, and for me leave Parry on the wing. Taka maybe for the bench but Hoff back to Wenty.
Hoff simply needs to go as he is poor in both attack and defence. Blake may be ready next week as he participated in the captain’s run but has his knee heavily strapped. Looking at MJ as he took his place in the stands yesterday he is a long way off.
Good on the ratings I’m happy with those Mitch.
On the game today yes I watched it. All of it.
If somehow by miracle we can get the big red machine Kane Evans to play n run like he did in the opening 10 for 60 minutes I’ll be happy. Did anyone notice the Chanel 9 team calling Evans Paulo 🤔.
Young Parry played good did well. To score past taufua n pull his pants down in scoring that try Was class. I like the look of this kid. Hopefully he can get more Games Under his belt before the yrs out
Now I’m going to get hammered from pillar to post about my next comments.
Salmon please if we are not going to bring him on to replace Mahoney thru out the game then why doesn’t Brad put him in wenty or put him in at 5\8. N put brown in wenty. Or maybe we Can shift salmon to 13 that way we can rest Lane at the start n bring him on as a prop to replace Evans at the 20\25 minute mark.
Gutherson really really poor game today buddy really poor. Your opposite number showed you how a fullback should take the game by the scruff of the neck. Better improve next week got RTS n in good form.
Manu n moeroa I’m glad that they are moving on. Poor games. Nothing else to say about these 2 guys. Marata needs to come on for Manu.
Is it me or is Brad bringing Kane off n shifting lane to prop n marata to back rower or prop ?
Our middle forward’s OMG it was weak as. As soon as teams run through the middle I noticed that they shift it down sivos side because he comes in to make tackles that the centre should be making. The boys really need to play tough our the line n slow down the ruck.
Question for anyone who cares.
Next weekend’s back 5.
Gutherson
Sivo
Waqa Blake
Parry
Ferguson.
If Ferguson is out then we bring takarangi back in n shift Parry to wing.
We’re is Parry’s best position. Some say centre some say winger. For mine his our Future Centre with a future winger to be brought from another club.
Good night n god bless. #Eels4life#
You are all over the place Rev (until you read what I suggest and then we will be in the same pot!)…why would you drop Dbrown for Salmon who has a game awareness of nil. Kevans should not be in the 17 fullstop….Guth wasn’t as bad as some make out….Paulo was ok. Parry showed the advantage of playing in a higher level and proves that cream does rise to the top…the sooner BA recognises this about Stephano & Oregon the better.
Good players to not develop in second grade (especially one called Wenty). One of those edge forwards can go to make way for Gower who I maintain is just an edge forward playing out of position as a prop…..alternately put Nbrown into prop and give the Gower a clean up role for the middle.(I accept that 13 is a middle prop these days) but I would get him wider in a covering (cleanup) role.
My pack would look like
Paulo and Brown starting props, with Mannah & Utoikamanu the bench.
Niukore and Shaun Lane edge starters, Gower 13 (mission cover the middle and cover defend) and Mahoney
Manu and Oregon Kafusi bench
If that pack won’t muscle up, we haven’t got one that will!!!
Pops, its interesting when one considers that Gowie was brought back into the top side a while back and played prop, he IIRC was a run on player rather than off the bench, and he copped a hiding from the opposition and there were more than a couple who wanted him sacked after that game. Also Terepo was picked in much the same way in a game around the same time and with similar results. As Peni is out therefore no consideration atm lets look at what a change can often do.
Gower after that performance went back to the bench and again IIRC as I may be wrong went to Wenty, before having a call up, all the talk was going around about this was his last season and how he was heading to some internal job for the eels, but he starts playing the same type of non stop football that is also basically mistake free and more than pulls his weight coming off the bench.
All of a sudden many are now looking at him having another swansong year, & I don’t have any problems with that as there are a few forwards at the club off contract end of this year that have said they are going and some not but will be going, same with some backs. Thing is a player like Gower and the way he plays and shows others how to go about things are very much inspiration players & at least one is needed with the young players coming through, especially the forwards. In some ways that puts undue pressure on Gower and also the young players as they have to perform in front of a band of unforgiving fans, and supporters who will follow them and show out their wanting them to succeed, a sort of a match within itself.
Here is the old man of the side showing pride and passion and wanting to go out of the game on a high, there are others who go out of the game but not on a high, which is sad, though they likely only have themselves to blame though.
We need some changes in the team also at the coaching level as well, I repeat that the current defensive coach is not helping the team, in fact I tend to wonder whether he can defend himself and the position he holds, therein is a major area that the club has to look into, they had a review last year and its now over a year since it was completed, and its time for that review to be revisited and reviewed based on how the club/teams are performing.
Pop’s we are 100% in the same pot. Manu hasn’t been his normal self hasn’t shown the form of 2017 no where here it.
My starting pack for this week would be like this pop’s
Paulo
Mahoney
Evans. Plays better at starting prop
Marata
Lane
Gower. I agree his a lock playing prop.
Bench
Kaufusi
Nathan brown
Peni
Salmon but needs more game time. Swap with Mahoney thru out the game
Manu Just doesn’t do it for me anymore n his one player along with Moeroa happy to see go. I hope we sign Welsh
Hard to not agree with you Rev., however I would prefer Brown to start at 13 though. While I like Brown, I would like to see him run a lot harder and try to take on the defence on their edges rather than the constant running into a brick wall.. There’s not much difference in body sizes between the two of them either, but I think Gower seems to have better leg drive when he hits the defensive line.
My brother Gower has a great offload in his game look brown does also but not as much as Gower. Brown’s offloading is once his thru the tackle.
Gower on the other hand has the skill set of off loading b4 n thru the line n after the tackle break. Plus brown plays like a extra prop he can come on n replace Evans or Paulo.
His our white little fui fui Moi Moi. Runs hard n straight.
My observation of the defence…..how many play the balls did Manly have when we still had a player either on the ground or still getting back to marker.
This allowed the manly dummy half and one of the ruck runners to make ground unchallenged and build non stop momentum. Speed off the ground by our defenders and getting the attacker onto his back is a skill and I think it is the one thing we need to fix….win the ruck and we will stop opposition momentum
Completely agree. We get this one thing right and yesterday is a very different game.
Even Sterlo was a bit lost for truth. When asked how we might stop Manly’s onslaught through the middle, he sounded perplexed…’you’ve got to find some energy, someone’s got to find a big play’. That seemed so right, but so surreal. Chanelling Chauncey Gardner. Then later he poInted to our weakness in behind the ruck. To me this is an outcome of other weaknesses, any team that plays fast exposes our tacklIng technique, ruck control, agility/mobility and effort.
I thought there were a couple of rucks coming off our line where Manly were allowed a free hit with the 10 mtrs but their line speed was relentless in first 40. Those Turbo boys are so good(footballers and humans). Good grades, and therapy Mitch, Petula Clark worked for me.
Thanks for the grades – always enjoy them.
IMHO I thought both Lane and Gutho should have received an E. Probably one of the worst games I’ve seen Gutho play and it’s quite obvious Laney is injured because that was a stinker!
Players are being switched from middle to edge constantly. It cant be helping. Both Lane and Brown looked slow today. Injurys?
I think it’s pretty standard for edges and middles to swap positions during the game; and with Parra’s 11-13 playing 80 minute games you’d think that would be happening even less than most other squads. Personally, I can’t imagine it’s contributing to the issue.
I watched the game on delay and I fast forwarded most of the middle of it. I watched it til the end though. Dylan Brown was probably the only positive today. He’ll improve and so will Parra. How has Alvaro been doing for Wenty? I think it’s time give Kane Evans a run there. We could’ve got done by 50, but similar to the sharks game, we made it respectable. We went on to win 3 straight after the Cronulla loss. We’ll bounce back against the warriors on Saturday. I have no doubt…… well maybe a little bit – I am a long suffering eels supporter after all!
I am never confident. Ever.
I think another positive to mention was Moses goal conversions
Moses is having a strong season in general. Even throughout manly spanking us he looked good
Added to the Post Narelle, great point.
Yes I agree not sure how many his kicked straight
There’s no denying DB has talent. I don’t think that really is the question. Shaun Johnson has talent in spades, but…… The question is DB’s game best compatible with the type of style Parra should play. As far as ball movement goes, Parra’s best games have been with Salmon at 5/8. He is a level headed footballer, who rarely makes mistakes, and seemed to have all the the time in the world when he broke the line to set up tries for Reed Mahoney and DB earlier in the season. A very telling insight into DB’s mindset was the inability to see the offload opportunity when he made his break yesterday. Oftentimes, players who are too instinctive can have blinkers on. In Moses and DB we have two footballers who are too much alike, and who both can have too many mistakes in them. BA has obviously chosen DB, and Salmon most likely will go elsewhere unless he puts on some weight and becomes a ball playing lock or backrower – can’t see him as a centre. Anyway, I just hope that DB is the right choice going forward. On another note, how good was Ethan Parry’s try!!
A lot of people laughed at the selecting of Des Hasler as coach, well who is laughing now. Our coaches, especially the head coach have no idea why our defence is still disgraceful, that’s certainly laughable!
Hindsight is 20/20. The Dragons looked the good pre-season too.
Regarding our defence, I nonetheless agree. We are a poor defensive side.
What’s hindsight and the Dragons got to do with what I said about Hasler. As an aside Dylan Brown looks the goods to me.
Because few thought the Dragons would be this bad or Hasler this good in the preseason. It’s easy to point out people’s mistakes in hindsight, but then again, who would have thought we’d be a Top 8 side? Certainly not me.
Mitch,
I think you have been way to generous to Clint Gutherson, his performance was disgraceful and not in keeping with a captains effort. Perhaps a stint in Wenty may do him good. He has not played well since he has been the captain. Bring back Timmy!
Ticking a lot of “typical fan response to a loss” boxes there MAX; questioning effort, giving someone a stint in Wenty, suggesting the captaincy is impacting performance, and then calling for the return of Tim Mannah. I did give Clint a C-, and my comment wasn’t exactly favourable; but thought he was good when we were good. It’s not a good grade, but that’s because he wasn’t very good.
Ps – Do you really believe Gutho has not played well since being named Captain? Really?
What about when he ran 250 metres against the Dragons?
Or his 18 run, 188 metre, 1 linebreak, 2 linebreak assist, 2 try assist, 2 tackle break performance against the Tigers?
Or 15 runs,174 metres, 2 tries, a line break assist, a try assist and 2 try saves against the Dogs?
Mitch I don’t believe he has had the impact that he has in the past and that coincides with him being captain. Rate his figures against other fullbacks in the game week in week out such as Charnze Nicoll-Klokstad.
Blaming the fullback for the failures of middle forwards to hold the ruck doesn’t seem the correct response to the game. We were heavily beaten in line speed and momentum, hard for really anyone in the backline to shine.
Basically, we need to improve the structure of our defence , until that occurs we will be an up and down side dependent on attitude on the day. They should be able to rely on a basic set up no matter the opposition or how they feel. It’s a massive failing which falls back on the defence coach. Currently we don’t seem to have anything resembling a base set up, which is strange given they train 5 days per week.
Big Derek, I am not blaming Gutho for the forwards poor performance, he is well down in the effort areas that he needs to be up in, its that simple, he commanded the big $$$$ and we commend a high percentage in the effort areas that he has failed to deliver since being captain, he is not a natural leader, take the responsibility off him and lets see the individual brilliance he once displayed.
I just don’t think there’s evidence to suggest your theory about him playing worse due to the responsibility is legitimate. There’s simply no evidence to suggest that’s the case.
How do you know he is not a natural leader, you would have to convince me there are players in the side to support that…….I have seen no sign or problem with his leadership….Nathan Brown is the natural leader of the forwards and his game was a lot less responsive than Guths in comparison.
I don’t think he got the nickname of “king” if there was no leadership there, and lets not go into training activity and who leads everything from go to wo!
Max I am sure that Guth did not intend to run off with that family member and she will come home eventually.
Poopa, I hope she returns only after she spent his money as she did mine!
Acknowledging his less than stellar game yesterday, I firmly disagree with your assessment of Gutho.
All good games but not against good teams that’s the concern
Possibly a more warranted criticism.
He did run 14 times for 189 metres against the Chooks in Round 3, and 16 for 176 metres against the Rabbits, though. One early in the season, the other Origin affected, admittedly.
Mahoney is being targeted and even though he can defend he’s getting smashed out there, forwards need to pull their fingers out, I’d even consider starting Gower for a bit of variation cause this one man hit ups are rubbish.
For Kane or Paulo? I’m not sure either would be more effective off the bench, but Gower has to go a long way these days before he puts a foot wrong, so I’m not against it.
Mahoney missed 3 tackles and led the count, what more do you want from him if the other forwards don’t do their job!
I decided to sleep on it before I responded. What a disappointing result. As Colin pointed out last week there was indications that this might happen.
Has Hoff played his last game for the Eels? He is not alone there are players out there today who we know will not be with us next season and it showed yesterday.
Our middle defence was poor again yesterday and the effort was missing. This has been pointed out by many on here but as Derek says you can’t keep doing the same thing and expecting a different result.
Gutho and Lane had their worst games of the season. Is it some sort of Brookvale hoodoo for the ex sea eagles
Mitch I think you are watching too much Alaskan Bush People
Just seen on Fox that they are tipping Blake in the centres against the Warriors and Parry to keep his spot on the wing with Hoff missing out.
I thought Parry was good in his debut yesterday without being outstanding. I would be happy to see him keep his spot with Ferguson likely to be missing again against the Warriors.
I expect that to be the changes. Taka has surely been performing better of the two centres (although I’m not sure I’d happily bet on that to continue forever).
Scoring 4 tries in two weeks gives him the bragging rights for now
Tell me more of this Alaskan Bush People you speak of.
The Brown family live in the Alaskan Bush.
It is a large family 7 kids who grew up in the wilderness. Each of the kids want to build a house on their wilderness plot.
They want to call their settlement Brown Town.
Outstanding.
I’ve got 2 things that really bother me…
1 – I’m sick of yelling “get him on his back, where’s the markers”!
2 – Why was N Brown taken off?
As I said above, I’m really not sure why Brown only got 54 minutes. But the marker defence leads to the problems in the middle. It’s really poor.
Agree with your gradings and comments Mitch – defense in the middle is terrible (like the nsw apartment towers imagery), too hard to watch in one sitting & the score flattered the Eels. We’re pretenders not contenders – Eels will probably make the eight with the benefit of home games but we’re just making up the numbers.
I don’t disagree with you but I think expecting us to be challenging for the title the year after the spoon is miracle stuff. Nonetheless, I do hope we more than make up the numbers. I’ve said this for a couple of months now, but if we can jag a finals victory; I think that’s a good season the year after a spoon.
“WHAT?! YOU DON’T EXPECT US TO WIN IT ALL? THAT’S ACCEPTING MEDIOCRITY!” – some clown, soon
Really disappointing in the middle, we just simply weren’t tackling very soft, to much arm flapping not enough direct contact.
Agreed mate. Appreciate you contributing.
I wonder if the middle forwards were left out there too long in the first half? I noticed at the 23 min mark both Paulo and Evans were still on the field. We started to struggle through the middle from about the 20 min mark. I also think our bench needs to change slightly to bring in a bit more aggression. As you say Mitch Lane seems to be struggling to play long stints and may need some reduced minutes.
Hmm, in normal circumstances I don’t think expecting 25 minutes in the first stint for middle forwards is outrageous, the bigger problem was how the game went yesterday. I think 25 minutes is pretty standard across the NRL. The nature of the game and the possession flow were pretty unique problems, which of course compounded the issues the middle forwards experienced.
Thought you got the grades bang on M. Honest fair assessment.
Thanks for reading mate. A lot of people wanting Gutho’s blood, but I thought he played alright in the backend, and wasn’t as bad as people think in the frontend. But that’s me.
Spot on Mitch, being involved in junior league , you see it even there, good fullbacks just don’t get enough room to express themselves if the opposition marches through the middle. Look at the game again, Gutho was constantly on the back foot until the forwards managed to exert some pressure and even possession midway through the second half.
Yes , he wasn’t as dominant as earlier , but not many players do it through the whole season. Critiscism of all and sundry is legendary on social media, but Mitch your grades are fair even if we question some.
Agree Mitch.
Our middle is a worry and has been most of the year. Can’t be that soft if want to make 2nd week of finals. We can outscore the lesser teams but the top teams are too strong up the middle.
Agreed mate. Thanks for reading.
Agree with the posts and our defense in the ruck, atrocious. Whilst I cannot understand the appointment of the defensive coach, I was at the game and have seen a similar pattern this year. We were heavily penalised in the ruck last year and when we give away a penalty in the ruck early, like we did in this game, our players seem to have some sort of penalty in the ruck battered syndrome, where we panic and get so paranoid about giving away a penalty, we just go to mush and paranoia about giving away a penalty. The home crowd had something to do in this, but our players should stick to their guns and hold on for an extra second or two, we just rolled away too quickly, thus opening the flood gates.
The positives are we gave away two tries where our wingers were out leapt, how often does this occur? and two tries through just soft defense due to being on the back foot. A parra team of yesteryear would have folded under the pressure and just gave up. Our boys did not do that in this game, they kept trying and kept in the game, yes desperate play in the with some dumb options, but in the game. This is a good sign my fellow supporters, trust me. This does not absolve us of not playing better in the ruck, but we are not always going to win the ruck, but giving away speed of light play the balls will always lead to a challenge.
!YM you make a good point, there has been a real difference in the Eels defensive players rolling away to avoid penalties and this reduced penalty count has been beneficial in many games. However the first up contact in defence was also poor. Good to hear some analysis of the positives.
Yes, I think it was sixties earlier in the year mentioned our ruck was looking cleaner/less penalised, but this is other side of the coin. When Manly were running hot the penalties had gotten out to 4-1(their favour) and only heaped more pressure on our middle. Evans was first man penalised for a slow last man peel off, he seemed to stutter in the motion of getting up and Checcin blew it, Evans was nowhere near 4 seconds but the stutter did it, so, as you say, we probably re-acted to that. The Storm would ignore that penalty.
Yes, it is plain to see for anyone with eyes that the issue is our defence. And to a point I can therefore understand the masses calling for Kidwells head, but there has to be an underlying issue.
I’d like to throw a thought out there for the more educated to ponder for a moment…The source of the issue lies with Reed Mahoney!!!!
Now before the masses start calling for my head as well as Dave Kidwells, consider what I’m about to say because, I have a man crush on Reed and reckon without his defensive effort this year we may have lost a few more games this year. However…
Reed is a nuggetty little bloke who in days gone by would have been on par with the likes of Ray Price in the tackling department. And therein is where I think the issue is. Reed, like Pricey is a LEGS tackler and in the “modern” game this is actually a disadvantage as it allows the attacking player to quickly play the ball. With Reed predominately controlling our line speed, then making first contact often in the 2nd, 3rd and 4th tackle of a defensive set, he is actually bringing players down before the help is able to hold them up, wrestle them onto their backs and slow the PTB. In essence, his tackling technique is technically wonderful, but I think it is contributing to the problem.
Look at Cam Smith or any of the other leading defensive work horses or the first contact makers in most teams and see how many are initiating that first contact in an up right position. They stop the momentum, help arrives to wrap up the ball, then they lay them down and roll ’em over.
I’d be really interested to hear what others here think because unless the team works it out we will continue to be in trouble. Reed is a quality player who I would be happy to see retire as a 1 club player and I think his work rate and his work ethic are outstanding. We need to find a way to support him.
Yesterday SUCKED big ones and we all need to vent so for the moment I’m prepared to join the masses in insisting that we get an ad out there sooner rather than later for a “D” Coach.
Could you be on to something?
It’s time to check the tape!!!
You really want to check yesterday’s tapes ? It’s like going back to hell to play with the Devil. It’s a horrific tale to go through again sixties. Don’t go there my son.
Strangely enough Jon, that’s the job of the defence coach, utilising a strategy to get the best out of the lineup, a legs tackler needs support from those inside to finish it off. Too often our players are allowed to be isolated as the support is late to complete the tackle. You mentioned Price,- Muggleton, Wynn and others were perfect foils to go higher and finish the play.
If it isn’t working , change it, as I said before after last year was a big call to extend/ not move on Kidwell, was he under contract and the club didn’t want a payout or was it loyalty to a fellow coach, who knows?
Muggleton is still a defensive coach for one of the RU teams, he or Jim Dymock should be approached to take on as our defense coach
Why is Hindmarsh not in this discussion? I recall him being an amazing defender and hard worker.
Rob maybe because he is comfortable working on tv etc and being paid well?
Yeah, it’s true. Does that mean he can’t be lured back? He does love his Eels still… well, he seems to.
Agreed Big D i normally see the first contact (Melb for e.g.) go high and hold on type / wrestle and the legs defender often comes in next or third man in style. You mentioned isolated, and this is often the case. The first player has to win the contact.
To me this also stems from not having a compressed defence line; your A and B defenders (one on each side of ruck type defenders) making contact first then the 3rd man in may do the legs etc; everyone has to know their role in defending.
I am not going to bag the coaches etc as i have not been to training this year but wish i have been. It all stems from the set up of your defence and to me this starts from line speed; technique in defence, communication of defenders and the roles of each defenders. Discipline is the key. The first 3 tackles of a set can be crucial and lay the platform for the set, and is no different to running the ball out of your line etc. How often have we seen Parra particularly last season struggle to kick the ball on the last because the the 4th tackle run was not a dominant forward?
I would have preferred Parra to lie on the attacker, give away a penalty and get your line set. To me our spacing in defence is at times too spread from the marker out, and line speed players have to lead the defence. To me Beau Scott was a superb tackler and who knows would be a good coach type defensive person….communication in defence is a key.
I feel like our boys weren’t “peeling off” a tackled player the way The Storm do, if our team can learn to do that we can effectively slow the play down and maybe retreat much more safely into our defensive positions? I don’t know.
I think the clearest issue was that our markers weren’t on their feet.
JB, I made some comments not sure if on here or the other site regarding Reed and his tackling when compared to other teams Often when I watch Smith for the storm come in to a tackle its more as you say leg tackles but just as often he’s there to hold one leg of the player being tackled, then at least two other forwards bring the player down, depending on the size of the attacking player that can involve 3 defenders rather than the two. In either scenario Smith and at least one of the tacklers are able to get out of the tackle quickly leaving 2 to position themselves as Markers, by that time the other two are back in line for the next play.
With the eels, Mahoney usually is first in around the legs, he then gets 2 or 3 up high, similar to Storm but, Mahoney often is slower to roll away and get out of the ruck and back in the defensive line. The other difference is that the other tacklers are generally still involved in holding the ball player up and he is usually trying to go forward, meaning the main 2/3 are not containing in the tackle, and do not have the strength to hold that player up. In those circumstances Reed is often caught in the ongoing tackle and on the ground around the legs, as a result of the struggle that saps him a bit, and by the time he starts back into the defensive line the opposition has already rolled forward, with 2/3 players out of the defensive line rather than just two markers.
There are supposed to be 2 markers but the refs allow 1 only as it suits for some teams and if the 2nd marker is still trying to get back into the line he’s at risk of being penalised if the attacker runs into him, as it becomes an offside play.
What needs to also happen in attack is for DBrown to get his working relationship with Lane back into play, they need to train together better, as Lane is missing more of the passes from Brown than previously but he is just getting used to Brown again after his long layoff. The knock on by Lane from a Brown pass should have been taken, and he had space to run through, need that relationship on the other side between Moses and Marata which worked previously, or maybe Kafusi in that position/
Col in reference to the defence to me its about line speed and contact first up, and you need those 2-3 players in the tackle and each to have a role. To me our middle defence this yr has been avg to poor.
I cannot fault Mahoney too much but see your point and see this is an issue, but the other forwards need to aim up and get off line.
Milo, agree re the line speed and think I mention that, yesterday it seemed that the manly players ran at will and were at the eels defence line almost as soon as the ball was played.
Its a trait that I have watched for a while now where our defenders are not moving up fast enough and waiting for the attack to come to us. What that often is that our defence are in two minds as to what the bloke with the ball is going to do, rather than a specific defender focusing on the ball carrier and smothering him, then let the help come, and as soon as the player is down, no more than two defenders should be near the play the ball and are the markers.
Can anyone confirm for me that when marata comes on he plays in the back row n not prop.
I think Lane goes up front n marata in the back row I might be wrong. Cheers the rev
I could be wrong, but I think Lane generally hangs out on the edges. I think Marata swapped with Browny yesterday (which as said above was a bit odd), so yesterday might have been a bit of an anomaly.
At least I got my rightfully deserved MVP?
Good work to keep getting them out on the night Mitch.
Well deserved, too. Thanks for reading mate.