Let’s talk about the five-eighth position. The pivot, the stand-off, or in Rugby Union terms, the fly half.
One of two primary playmaking positions on the field, almost all of the best Parramatta teams in history have coincided with having a representative quality 5/8 (with the main exception being the 2009, Jarryd Hayne inspired side which made the grand final).
Like many of the other positions, the top name on this list will be obvious. Beyond that though, there are a few names here that might stimulate some discussion and debate.
One player who did miss the list but I wanted to shout out was Daniel Mortimer from that aforementioned 2009 team. Morts only had one decent half season for the club but it was quite a ride.
Outside of this, there were some temporary pivots such as Jason Smith, Daniel Wagon & Jim Dymock who will be part of the discussion at other positions.
Steve Ella and Michael Buettner were also brilliant five-eighths, but were perhaps better known at centre (at least for Parramatta). And had this series extended back further than the last 50 years, older supporters, like Sixties, would push for players like Ivor Lingard.
For now, here’s my list.
Honourable Mentions
Jason Bell
There have been many promising young Eels pathways halves who have been dubbed the next ‘Peter Sterling’ or ‘Brett Kenny’.
Making his first grade debut at the tender age of 17 as a precocious young half, Bell was the first player to be given this tag.
Bell played for Parramatta across two stints, firstly from 1989-1992 where he played primarily as a halfback with stints at 5/8 or in the centres, before moving to Souths in 1993 where he established himself as a regular first grade 5/8.
It was upon his return to Parramatta in 1997 where Bell found his best form. He was the starting 5/8 for the 1997 season when Parramatta finally returned to finals football after a decade long absence. He was then a solid contributor to the ill fated 1998 team, which went so close to a grand final berth.
It was pace was one of Bell’s biggest assets. I recall sitting on the hill for a 1997 game against Balmain when he took the ball directly from a scrum base and burned the defence to score.
Ah, the memories!
John Morris
A big money signing from Newcastle who went on to play over 300 games in the NRL.
Morris was a very handy 5/8 who played in that position in the 2005 minor premiership winning team that ultimately fell one game short of the Grand Final.
A highly versatile player who could play most positions in the backline and ultimately finished his career at hooker, Morris evolved into an early example of the modern day #14 during his later years at Wests and Cronulla.
Corey Norman
Brilliant at times but frustratingly inconsistent, this was the Corey Norman we are all familiar with.
The signing of Norman from Brisbane in 2014 was part of a 3 to 4 year recruitment drive which ultimately pulled the Eels out of the muck and back into premiership relevance.
Norman’s years with the club were chequered with mixed results, a salary cap scandal (resulting in stripped points), and several short lived but high profile halves partners. His best season was 2017, as part of an unlikely Parramatta charge to a top four berth.
Off field problems and a battle to hold the dominant half role ultimately overshadowed his incredible natural ability. At his best he was a shifty ball runner, clever kicker and silky passer of the ball who could occasionally appear as though he was running with spiders on him, so elusive did he prove to opposition defences.
It’s a shame that in spite of playing well over 200 first grade games, he likely never reached his full potential.
Third Place: Dylan Brown
Years at Parramatta: 2019-2024
1st Grade games for Parramatta at the position: 113
Premierships: 0
Representative Games: 8 x NZ international
Personal Honours: 2022 Blue & Gold Army NRL award, 2022 Ray Price NRL Community award
For Dylan to have cracked the top three of this list at only 24 years of age speaks volumes about his talent.
A New Zealand international who has come through the juniors at Parramatta, it’s hard to believe that Dylan has not yet turned 25, given how much he has achieved so far in his career.
Current Parramatta fans will be all too familiar with Dylbags game. If you’re not, you can check out the Youtube highlights being emailed around by his agent! Regardless of your recollections, here’s a quick refresher.
A pacy, strong runner of the ball with a brilliant stepping game and an underrated passing game, Brown can also lay claim to being the best defensive half in the competition.
Dylan’s value to the team was demonstrated by the impact of his prolonged absence during the 2023 season, when the Eels tried to replace him with stopgap options (such as Gutho), without much success.
The Brown/Moses combination almost took the club to a premiership in 2022, and I think we can all agree that we wish for this to be the Parramatta scrumbase combination for the rest of this decade. They could just be the partnership that finally leads us back to the promised land after nearly 40 years in the wilderness.
I’m not opposed to bribery Dylan. If moving you to second place on the list is enough to have you sign a new contract, just say the word mate, and I’ll pull out my ink well and quill to update the list.
Second Place: John Peard
Years at Parramatta: 1976-1979
1st Grade games for Parramatta at the position: 68
Premierships: 0 (2 with Easts)
Representative Games: 2 x NSW City, 4 x NSW, 11 x Australia
Personal Honours: NA
Narrowly edging out Dylan Brown for second place was John “Bomber” Peard.
Although Dylan still has the opportunity to leapfrog Peard over the rest of his (hopefully long) Parramatta career, at this stage I have to go with Peard in a marginal call.
The tag of “brilliant” has been applied to many players over close to 120 years of rugby league’s history. However, it’s a highly selective group who have left a legacy of changing the way the game is played.
John Peard revolutionised the five-eighth position in a way that is still relevant today.
Nicknamed ‘Bomber’ for his towering kicking game, Peard changed the way attacking kicks could be used, creating nightmares for a generation of fullbacks.
Think about the way in which Matt Burton, Nathan Cleary or Mitch Moses launch balls up into the stratosphere in the modern game – Peard was already doing that with a leather ball 50 years ago!
A key member of Eastern Suburbs premiership winning sides in 1974 & 75, Peard moved to Parramatta with much fanfare for the 1976 season and had immediate success. He was an experienced head in an otherwise young team which made the 1976 and 1977 grand finals (unfortunately losing both).
Although he made his first grade debut in his early 20’s, he was a late bloomer on the representative front, playing most of his games for Australia while in his 30’s, including his involvement in the 1975 World Cup winning squad.
Peard’s coaching career at the Eels was short lived, with the Eels unluckily missing finals football in 1980 by just one point. Ray Price had suffered a late season injury, and the Eels only picked up three points from their last five games.
The Bomber did guide the Eels to a Midweek Cup victory that season, but was replaced by Jack Gibson in 1981, and the result, as they say, is history.
First Place: Brett Kenny
Years at Parramatta: 1980-1993
1st Grade games for Parramatta at the position: 179
Premierships: 4 (1981, 82, 83, 86)
Representative Games: 4 x City Origin, 17 x NSW, 17 x Australia
Personal Honours: Adidas Golden Boot winner 1985, Lance Todd Trophy 1985, Dally M Rep Player of the Year 1986, Clive Churchill Medal (1982, 1983), No. 27 RLW Top 100 players (1992), NRL Team of the 1980s (2004)
Like Phar Lap winning the 1930 Melbourne Cup by three lengths, Brett Kenny is the best five-eighth Parramatta has ever had by an enormous margin.
A four-time premiership winner, ‘Bert’ (as he was affectionately known) played alongside Peter Sterling in arguably the greatest scrum base combination the game has ever seen.
Lightning fast, a great ball player with an incredible sleight of hand, the ultimate intercept try thief, not to forget a fine defender, Kenny had it all. He was an electric player who could bring the crowd to its feet – a little shimmy, an in and away, and he was gone.
Equally adept at either five-eighth or centre, he predominantly wore the number 6 which meant that the most dangerous player in the team could touch the ball more often.
Kenny’s individual achievements were numerous but it was his contribution to team success and to the Parramatta club for which I remember him most fondly.
Like many of the players to make these lists, he was a member of all four of Parramatta’s premiership sides. His incredible feat of try doubles in three consecutive Grand finals from 81-83 is a record which is unlikely to be matched or beaten.
When people think of the Eels winning that first title, the vision of Bert bamboozling Phil Sigsworth with that iconic dummy and sprint to seal the victory is imprinted on their memory.
And the run of try doubles should have continued. If not for a brace of Mick Stone refereeing calls in 1986, Kenny would’ve completed the set and had two tries in all four of Parramatta’s premiership wins.
The Clive Churchill medal did not exist in the early 80s, but a 2008 panel of experts (Geoff Armstrong, Ian Heads, Gary Lester, David Middleton) retrospectively awarded Brett Kenny the man of the match awards for the 1982 and 1983 Grand finals.
On top of his domestic success, Kenny was a Challenge Cup winner in the UK in 1985 for Wigan in a game remembered as one of the great finals ever. He won the man of the match trophy in that game as Wigan beat Peter Sterling’s Hull team, 28-24, in an all time classic duel. That same season he won his greatest individual award, the Adidas Golden Boot, given to the world’s best Rugby League player.
After beating Wally Lewis out for the starting five-eighth role on two consecutive Kangaroo tours, it’s a travesty that Lewis is an Immortal and Kenny isn’t.
An even greater affront is that during Kenny’s career, he failed to receive even one Dally M Five-Eighth of the Year Award, whereas Terry Lamb picked up this award six times! Take nothing away from Lamb, he was a fine player whose competitive approach to the game saw him walk a fine line with match officials.
But the Dally M snub didn’t end there. Looking back on the 1981 and 1982 seasons, the five-eighth awards went to Mick Pattison and Mitchell Cox respectively. As Geoff Toovey might say, “there needs to be an investigation!”
We could break down how points were awarded or how recipients were selected to find the answer to why Kenny was overlooked for a Dally M gong in every season. Regardless, most punters agree that Bert was in a class of his own in premiership football during this era.
Although Bert will be rightly remembered for his incredible impact on our premiership winning sides of the early to mid 80’s, I’ll remember him just as fondly for the role he played towards the tail end of his career.
Kenny was the last of the great Parramatta players to retire in 1993, at a time when all of his other superstar teammates had given the game away after succumbing to injuries or loss of form. In his later years Bert played what should be acknowledged as a valuable mentor role for the young, inexperienced players of those seasons.
The Eels didn’t win a lot in the early 90’s, but Bert stuck around and gave his all to the club and I’m positive the young players he played with were better for it. They say that true friends are there for you through good times and bad, and Bert was definitely a true friend to the club.
At the time of his retirement, Kenny held the club record for most games played (265) and most tries scored (110).
As a kid I remember meeting him at Retravision at Eastwood where he was signing autographs for fans. He was very generous with his time and an absolute gentleman to a younger me who looked up to him as my favourite player.
As an adult, I now view him as Parramatta’s greatest ever five-eighth and one of the finest to pull on an Eels jersey.
Chris Ricketts
Bert Kenny first and the rest can please themselves, that in and away dummy v Newtown to win the gf in 81 is the greatest thing I’ve seen on a football field , not so much his brilliance but what it did for parramatta as a club
Brett Kenny all day 👏
I do believe brown was trending in another direction compared to what we’ve seen, if he did not have off field issues and apparently some alleged drinking habits. Gutho stated in an interview not long ago that Dyl would have forgotten him by now (jokingly), referring to his poor memory which is often a symptom of binge drinking, etc. Which most young blokes can attend to as some stage.
My bold prediction is brown still becomes a top 2 all time 5/8 at parra if he stays with us and removes any alleged off field potentially distractive habits from his life style. Mitch Moses was also not a true star / elite player at Dyl’s age.
I hope that like Mitch, Dylan can continue to progress his game with age as he matures. It’s common to get a 5/8 or #7 who has decent passing & ball playing game, what’s RARE is to have the whole package (elite acceleration, high level defensive, tough, good top speed). Both Dylan and Moses have these traits in droves. It is very rare.
Hopefully brown can follow a path similar to Moses, matures off field, continues to grow with age, learns to game manage more with time. Nobody years ago saw moses as being like he is today. Hopefully Brown can gain inspiration from Mitch and follow a similar trajectory, we must consider brown is only 24.. I think Mitch is 30 and one could argue hit is prime only during the last 3 seasons (age 27-30). Dylan still has time to become an all time parra great if he chooses to do so in my opinion. Hopefully some new coaching voices and better backline support & speed will help him to unlock another level of excellence in his game.
Muz, you’re entitled to your opinions but I’m not a fan of “alleged” comments, its just mud throwing to my mind. Which of us as young men didn’t have a night or many when we had too many bevvies. I realise his suspension was the result of a night on the drink and very inappropriate behaviour but he’s a young man. Young men do stupid things at times, I certainly did and being an elite sportsman at a young age doesn’t mean he has maturity levels beyond his age. Give it a rest.
Trapped. If if’s a ‘thought crime’ to state the obvious, I plead guilty.
As a brown fan myself, simply stating a fact that if he is to follow a path to maturing both on the field and off like Moses, it could see him become an all time great.
The alleged drinking stuff is honestly putting it nicely. Mud throwing would be to mention each individual incident that’s happened over the years. But as a fan I never really once saw him in a negative light, I think everyone deserves second chances and opportunities to become better.
Especially being a high earning star athlete at a young age. Like you said.
As I said you’re entitled to your opinions, but how do you know in what context Gutho made that comment yet you include it as support of your narrative. I’m not well connected and if his drinking is as seriously concerning as you’re suggesting then I hope he has enough good people around him to set him straight.
Kenny was always going to be the undisputed 6.
But honestly, I can’t get my head around what’s going on with Brown. Seems like Brown has read the $$$Clint Gutherson$$$ book on how to make the media work for him to extract as many dollars as possible out of Parramatta, the club who stuck by him through his off feild dramas..
Not in Kenny’s class but I used to love watching Peard play. Saw him get messed up a few times but he’d always get back up. He was pretty tough. After his playing days, he bacame a commentator on ABC TV on Saturdays and he was unbelievably witty and entertaining. Describing Graham Wynn’s running “you can time him with a sundial”. His amazing dry humour during commentary only ever matched by Jack Gibson himself!
Bert !! He made Wally’s Lewis look pedestrian and outclassed him everytime they played against eachother! It is an absolute travesty that Brett Kenny is not an immortal!
Johny Peard changed the game. Not many have done that. He was a great signing from Easts and a valuable part of the club getting its first premiership.
Dylan’s story is still being written and he can decide how that goes. Talented Eels player or Eels premiership winner!
Pete if Dylan stays and we have some good years, or a premiership like you said.. he could go to on to become an all time great eel. I still see it as possible. Look at Moses, age 30? He only just hit his prime in recent times. Brown I think is only about 24. Moses was not considered elite or a star at 24. Brown is a elite for age 24.
Yeah, Muz, halves don’t really mature (Cleary still improving-scarry) until late 20’s early 30’s. He could play to 34/35!
I’ve said previously he could be anything. It’s really up to him. He’s said himself he needs to be consistent.
He just needs to meet a good woman!!
Half backs don’t have to be late Twenties, thirties to be great. Cleary ,Sterlo, Johns, dce and others dominated at young ages. As far as Kenny making a mug out of Lewis every time they opposed each other well that’s just rubbish.
I said ‘mature’! I even said Cleary is still improving. I did Not say ‘great’. That’s your word and love missed the point.
In actual fact Kenny did get the better of Lewis! Lewis has often said this himself! To say Lewis was made a ‘mug’ is you twisting my words and that insults both players. That was not what I wrote or
meant. Lewis was never a ‘mug’.
Try writing your own comment. Instead of misquoting others.
Yes, it’s another NRL mistake with it’s failure to make Kenny an immortal. And it is correct Kenny was the better man over Lewis on the kangaroo tours. Actually, I believe the coach Frank Stanton preferred Kenny because he was more committed than Lewis. It came down to training and it seems Lewis was a lazy trainer. I do have to say when it came to origin Lewis was a different man who bled for the maroon jumper. Brett was the same player as he was when wearing the Eels jumper. The difference being the mentality in approaching the game. That is not say Kenny didn’t play his best, but Queenslanders grow another leg when it comes to origin.
He was a wonderful player. I recall a game at Cumberland when Weats were at the height of their thuggery and a young Kenny gave a west player a mouthful and half the west side turned on him and I recall he panicked and cried out for help from his teammates who came running. He was going to get a real hiding that day but got safely away. As for the Daly M awards it’s not unusual that the wrong player wins. Gutherson was robbed a couple of years back by either Wighton or Hynes – can’t quite recall. Kenny should have monopolised those awards along Sterling, Ella, Grothe, Cronin and Price – what a team.
Kenny had wonderful hands and often on muddy days the opposition would kick and Kenny being in the way would do a reflex slips catch. A great player with a wonderful temperament and certainly a footy hero for the Eels.
Great points Zero58!
I really lost respect for the process of awarding Immortal status after Johns. Whilst Johns was great. It was far too soon and too many players ignored prior imho.
100% Zero58, it’s embarrassing for the game that Kenny is not an immortal.
Honestly, can you see anyone in the rugby league world who would argue?
Kenny stood out amongst many great players of his era.
You only have to ask Lewis who the greatest player he ever played against, and that’s coming from an immortal.
Yes, put down the glasses, Kenny by a big margin. You caught my eye Chris with the late career comments. There was a season, maybe two where he beefed up a bit, moved to lock to allow a young Glen Liddiard into the 6. I went to a number of high scoring games where watching those 2 in attack was worth the entry price alone (but I’ve gone very vague on our defence).
Every supporter, player, teammate and the media view Kenny as not only one of the greatest five-eighths but one of the greatest players of all time.
How the hell is he not an immortal?
Buettner, I think he deserves more than an honourable mention. He came back to us after playing several seasons as a five-eighth for the bears and was part of our 2001 record breaking team as our five-eighth.
I remember him more fondly as a five-eighth than I do centre.
I personally think he’s just behind Brown as the best five-eighth we’ve had since the great Kenny.