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The end is nigh. While we are still awaiting confirmation from both the Eels and Dragons, media reports are intensifying that talismanic fullback Clinton Gutherson will shortly be released from his contract with the Parramatta Eels to join the St George Illawarra Dragons immediately.
Sixties and Forty20 look at these massive developments for the Blue & Gold as new coach Jason Ryles continues to aggressively overhaul the roster ahead of the commencement of the 2024/25 preseason. What is Gutherson’s legacy with the club after nearly a decade of outstanding service at fullback? In a glittering career as an Eel, what moments stood out? The boys also look at his fit with the Dragons under Shane Flanagan. Will ‘Gutho’ walk into their team as captain?
Gutherson’s imminent departure naturally leaves the Eels with a windfall of salary cap space in 2025 but what can they do with it? The show discusses a number of possibilities for the club including the link between Ryles and Melbourne custodian Ryan Papenhuyzen.
I’ll listen to this on my walk tonight but looking at the open market, somewhere between Cobbo, Papenhuyzen and Addo-Carr there is a better backline than we are shaping up with.
Wise decisions are needed to be made. Don’t think JAC figures in the thinking.
Yeah, we’re three years late to that party, and I think the same applies to Papenhuysen. Cobbo is interesting but work ethic is a problem.
It cannot be denied Gutherson has given sterling service during his tenure at the Eels. I haven’t always agreed with his captaincy decisions on the field but in the mold of Ray Price he has given 110 percent. Looking after his future Gutherson requested this and if it is to his advantage we cannot deny it. He will be missed but football life goes on and another player will take his place. I hope it it is not the “Pap”. As good as he is players who leave the Storm are never quite the same. It’s their unity and understanding on the field with each other that makes good players look great. JR will know what we need if we don’t already we have it.
Farewell to the gutherina – we wish him all the best. I would have hoped he stayed 2025 and took a coaching position. This leaves MM as the obvious captain choice or maybe Hopgood.
For the fans it will be a sad sight watching him in different colours and so an era closes with a new one starting next Monday. We await on our ilustrious training servant Mr S Sixties for his insightful reports to whet the appetite for 2025.
And, not for the last time 2025 is going to be a good year for the Eels.
Zero, it almost reminds me of when Ray Higgs left Parra for Manly. It never looked right. But I can’t fault Gutho on his call or the Eels for doing the right thing by him and not standing in his way.
A good call Sixties. When Higgs joined Manly a 13 year old me followed him from the change room to his car in the carpark at Belmore sports ground after a game (my family lived near by so we went to a lot of games)…and I sledged him mercilessly. I was only a kid but I got to him
It would have cut him. His heart was never in the maroon and white. Didn’t stay long.
Mitch Moses is the only real choice as captain. To all intents and purposes he’s been the co-captain out there anyway. It’s his team now, 100%. I’d make Dylan vice captain, with Hopgood, Lomax & Junior the deputies. I think that’s a perfect balance of youth & experience in the leadership group.
Some might object to Dylan being vice captain, but I think it’s time the club put some real weight on his shoulders. Hes served a long apprenticeship as the clubs future, well now’s the time to really start delivering, on and off the field.
Gutherson is the third big money player we have moved on that was under contract for next year. If we don’t come up with someone significant for next season then this is a massive failure by Parramatta. No excuses, I already have concerns over our football department.
Iron Mike, I did the calculations during the season and predicted that high profile departures would be essential for Parra to hit the player market. Five spots are vacant. Three have to be filled before round one. But, if we can’t get a significant signing for 2025, it’s simply because the current market of available players isn’t ideal. Where it gets interesting is when contracted players are suddenly freed up (see May or JAC). That’s sets the proverbial dominoes in motion and the market takes on a different look. It’s handy to have some coin to pounce if there’s someone worth poaching.
Not necessarily. We have other players who will need upgrading, and if we can’t get a blue chip recruit for 2025, the club can simply move forward some salary from 2026 which will create more cap space down the line. Point being, don’t spend it just for the sake of it, use it wisely.
I disagree, Gutho was off contract anyway at the end of next year so his money would have been there for 2026 and there is only so much the NRL will allow clubs to front load contracts. So what have we achieved by letting Gutho go a year early other than weakening our squad?
We have a halfback capable of winning us a comp but he is now 30. We don’t want to be wasting years building for the year after.
Iron Mike, are you suggesting that the Eels should have denied Gutho’s request to leave early? I know there’s no room for sentiment in deals, but if we respect Gutho, denying him a deal that he possibly wouldn’t have got in 12 months time would have been fairly harsh.
Without a replacement or replacements in mind that exactly what I’m suggesting, we are showing him plenty of respect by paying him around $900k. You can 100% guarantee Melbourne Storm won’t be telling Papenhuyzen thanks for everything you have done for us, if you get a long term deal elsewhere you are free to go now. They will do what is best for them full stop!
I know of no restrictions on how clubs can massage future payroll to their benefit. As long as teams reach the floor and don’t exceed the cap in any given year they can do what they want. If they want to bring 500k from Mitch Moses’ salary in 2026 to 2025, they can do it. The NRL relaxed some of those restrictions a few years ago, and rightly so. The only thing they can’t do is bring forward money for recruits ahead of their arrival. Theoretically we could pay Mitch the team used of his contract less the minimum salary next season if we wanted to.
Tks guys. I just have this feeling that our best 17 (as it stands now) will be top 8 material, but the last couple of years have shown how cruel RL can be and could easily happen again. Fitness and mobility in the forwards must be a key objective, one of those things is a procedural matter, the other may be harder to achieve. Blokes like Lindsay Collins have mobility both in their mind and body, a bigger challenge to work with.
I think it’s obvious that Ryles has a certain type of player that he wants – leg speed in the forwards seems key. Without a bad injury run the team will definitely improve. I’ll be cautiously optimistic.
Sivio despite his try scoring feats is the laziest winger in the NRL. If he played like Brian To’o then he was worth more and worth keeping. Gutherson to extend his deal would have been looking for a million a season. He is a great footballer but has tired slow legs. We got banged up for signing aging players on long deals. RCG while one of our best forwards – at his age was looking for three years on aging legs. Apparently Junior Paulo is better value. We have a number of young forwards coming through.
It’s not the end of the world. If we can’t win with what we have then changes are inevitable which include aging favorites. Let’s wait and see what unfolds. Parra now has a war chest and what we do want is astute buys. Let’s remain positive.
The interesting factor Zero is how many contracts expire at the end of 25. All of those players are about to be able to field offers. If any move on, then the war chest for 26 is quite significant
There’s rumours a few good players are going to open market but some won’t be available until 2026.
Hope we can snag some good signings to begin our off season all together – those new combinations takes time.
Any news on potential new signings?
JAC is apparently available, Tyrell May reportedly on the outta at roosters, Ben hunt is available, Selwyn cobbo has be rumoured unfavourable at broncos, Knights under pressure to keep Brailey with cap space.
We need another NRL quality back for naval depth at bare minimum. We need another NRL level hooker. We need another solid forward who isn’t a rookie, but also isn’t 30 years old and resembles a wombat in terms of body composition & speed.
Any ideas if Leo Thompson is going to be available? I reckon he would be good at parra.
Doubt Thompson is available I think the Knights just signed his twin brother.
What’s your Thoughts on May? Tyrell may is probably a better prop than any player on our roster with a huge gas tank, he may have off field questions but his own field performances are very high standard. He is probably better than RCG and was on verge of being picked in the NSW squad this year.
Imagine him running off Mitchel moses? Moses makes the forwards around him look super human at times. Even saw this in the Kangeroos games the holes he puts them through.
I don’t want to get she’s of ourselves, but if we got Tyrell may we actually have better forwards depth than last year by a mile considering our jnrs coming thru (Guymer, etc). The issue is other teams will chase his signature, it may cause a bidding war. We don’t typically win those in ways that benefit us.
I don’t rate us signing props at 800k + unless their name is Payne Hass or Big Tino F, maybe a Pat Carigan. I personally think our large cap space placed in paulo, RCG, lane, matto, is a large part of our clubs decline. We had reserve graders come in as rookies and show them up in work rate (e.g Guymer). No other clubs wanted any of those players besides RCG, that’s a huge red flag how poor value those guys gave us besides RCG. 🚩 we can’t tie that much money in similar / Snr age players anymore unless it’s a quality half or player like gutherson was.
There are three brothers of the May clan and two have caught up with questionable behavior.
The last thing we want are trouble makers and that includes JAC.
We have some good young forwards coming through – let’s use them so we don’t lose them.
True 58, all the brothers have had issues. He is a risk. Tyrell is a gun prop tho and one that would absolutely shift our momentum. But he is obviously a risk personality wise.
I didn’t know he had a twin brother Stubbyholder. What do you think of Cobbo? I think he is a bit of a sook.
Didn’t he get rested from SOO last year because his feelings were hurt?
I’d be wary of Cobbo. The talent is unquestioned, but up here in Brisbane his name is mud, particularly amongst Broncos fans. There’s real questions about his work ethic and no one is sure what his position is. Is he a centre, winger or fullback ??? I’d be wary, especially when you consider how much he’d cost.
I wholly agree with your comments on Cobbo.
Muz, you’ve probably named a couple that the club would have no interest in and a couple that are possible. If there’s a genuine target, you’d want them there for the best part of the preseason. We need to sign three before round one.
Definitely some controversial characters are named in there mate, lol. Risk vs reward is high 😅
I have total faith that ryles knows exactly what he’s doing against saint’s and the tigers we put big scores on them without 6 regular 1st graders through injuries.i think with a couple more players added to the squad we have we should improve immensely barring long-term injuries to our top line players and just hope supporters start to get behind ryles instead bagging him out .
The number of players on the sideline, and who they were, should not be ignored by anyone Macca. That’s two horrible years of absent players. It cost a finals spot in 23, given we only missed a spot by one game. This year, we would have been more competitive and could have picked up a few extra wins. So I think improving in 25 is a realistic goal.
Look it’s become a business this game of ours and while I will miss Guths effort and effort plays, he had the chance to stay and show his worth as leader. He chose to look on and that’s sport. Good on him and good for the club.
Ryles gets to make his mark somewhat earlier as well as in 12 months.
Like others we need someone with experience to come on board and Ryles for me will have a plan I think.
I just hope Moa sorts our defence…do that and we already improve a few spots and more.
Milo, the words “there’s no room for sentiment in footy contracts” resonated with me when it was said by a wide rugby league man. And to be fair, Gutho and his agent have applied the same principle.
And let’s remember, Gutho burned a lot of goodwill when he and his manager dragged his contract negotiations through the media the last time. I didn’t have a problem with it, players have short careers and have to milk it for every cent they can while they can, but that blade cuts both ways, and he lost his most important ally when the club sacked BA.
All the best gutho. I would have liked us to use gutho to bargain for a players swap for a dragons junior but it is what it is. If we can get rid of lane, lussick, Grieg etc by end of 25 then I’ll be quite happy with the roster turnover ryles has initiated.
Of course, we still need a good backline player and hooker and a prop (at the least). I think some of our juniors really need to step up (esp the junior backrowers in flegg or cup). The opportunity are there for juniors who want to take it.
We also need Dylan and Mitch to take up options. I’m so sick of seeing them off contract very second year and exercising all the leverage over the club.
This list of players off contract at the end of next year is extensive. Interesting times ahead.
You could argue we’ve effectively done that with Zac Lomax, ditto Talagi for Iongi. I sometimes wonder if teams are making these deals behind the scenes anyway but spread them out to appear there’s no Quid Pro Quo.
Gutho is a club legend and I will miss him. But given the effect the game was having on his body, I’m not sure he’d last another three season. I’m hope I’m wrong and he has a good run with the Dragons (except when they play Parra of course).
And it is Halloween but almost a bit like NRL Player Movement Christmas Eve. Some interesting player news and moves that could reverberate through the comp and provide some surprises. There are people linking almost all suddenly available players to the club but it seems Ryles is intent on building a strong culture at Parra. Players with the potential to weaken that culture, regardless of ability, I’d guess are likely not being considered. Which I’m more than ok with.
As am I Shaun.
Thanks gents. I’m personally still in the camp that we should have kept Gutho. I think he makes up for the lack of leg speed with all his other characteristics. I also don’t see why he would be more valuable to another club than Parra, and for all of this talk about having “balance” in our squad, we seem to be getting light on many of the attributes Gutho brings. So either Ryles is wrong or Flanagan is wrong. Looking in the rear view mirror, there’s plenty to say it could be Ryles.
Papenhuyzen would be a good buy, but I wonder where that would leave Iongi and Papalii – they’d be stuck behind him for years. Cobbo I’m not so interested in, he seems to tune in and out of games too much. We need another good 9, but they are few and far between, so not sure where to next on that front.
MickB, I’m hoping both Ryles and Flanagan are right.
The facts are that Parra were happy to keep Gutho for 2025 and work to see if the move to utility helped preserve his body and extend his career. Looks like Gutho and his manager wanted assurances he would be extended on close to elite fullback money , and once they looked at what that meant , they requested they look at market opportunities early etc etc
No doubt the manager had already been sounded out , and Parra assisted by releasing him early and in some ways it was a compliment to the player to allow him to move and take advantage of the offer. Overall they rewarded Gutho for his input to the club by not standing in his way for 2025, that’s how I see it.
I see it similarly B & G.
The club definitely wanted to keep Gutho, but on the club’s terms, not Gutho’s. There will be some short term pain, and you can bet the first time Iongi has a bad game he’ll be pilloried by the fans, but I think it was the right decision.
That’s it in a nutshell Brett.
Brett both Papalii and Iongi are actually better fullback prospects at their level than gutho was majority would agree. Papalii was bulldogs player of the year 23 I think Iongi was NSW cup fullback of the year 24’. I don’t believe gutho was the top of the heap at fullback at their stage.
But what separates gutherson is his competitor spirit like 60’s mentioned on the podcast. That and his extreme fitness & toughness. Plus football smarts. These are something X factor and raw playing ability cannot substitute long term, gutho footy IQ was off the charts too.
I’m saying this, as the fellas mentioned on the podcast fans called for gutho to be dropped when he started on the wing for us. 🤣 gutho was also seen as a drop kick by some fans because he was not first choice at manly, and wasn’t really wanted.
He came to us and was in my view a once in a decade player. He just was stuck behind turbo and what not at manly. Plus young & Raw. A bit thin, had mistakes.
Iongi & papali’i have more X factor speed & footwork than gutho did. All we need is one of them to have 1/10 of the fighting sprit gutho had and we have ourselves another solid NRL quality player next season or the one after to be solidified in the 17.
It was definitely the right decision to not sign him on 900k for another few seasons. Even tho I’m gutted. These young blokes will cop flack from impatient fans, but these are top 1% elite young talents which our club does not have. We are very lucky to get both these blokes to us, and gutho leaving & the fullback opportunity opening is why they signed.
It’s a sad but also potentially game changing long term decision for the club, my feeling is both of them will be quality regular NRL players in time.
We can only look in the rear view mirror when the events have passed. We haven’t started 2025 and Ryles is putting together a team that will improve our position on the ladder. We are headed for the top eight for a number of reasons that will be revealed as the preseason progresses.
Gutherson was a great footballer but, he has had the stuffing knocked out of him. Losing him is not necessarily going backwards. Let’s first see what unfokds and them maybe your rear view mirror wont look so blurred. Let’s move on with confidence.
Well said Zero.
Mick I understand where you are coming from. I witnessed Gutho battle to get through each week in 2024. I marvelled at how tough he was. How single minded he was to take the field when others might have taken an extended period on the sideline. But in putting myself in the club’s position, I couldn’t expect them to extend the King for at least two years from 2026 on around a million each year. Gutho has been worth more than a million to Parra before now. I think he’s still got some top footy in him for 2025. He will play through injury moving forward. But could Parra afford that money without seeing what next season brings?
My son and I both agreed all parties will be better off but he kept on saying “I can’t imagine Parra without Gutho” He is genuinely guttered, his reaction took me by surprise. The last time I saw him this guttered was when my father passed.
For my son, most of his Parra memories include Gutho, for older supporters like myself, we have learnt to accept that change is not only inevitable in Footy, but also in life.
Thanks for the podcast gents.
It’s genuinely sad mate, especially when you told this story and I think about it. Gutho is parra. Non parra fans don’t understand. Gutho is the eels in my mind, and it’s going to be hard to see him running out in a St George jeresy. Although I do honestly wish him luck.
You’re welcome Joseph. Your son has discovered the pain of being a passionate supporter. When that premiership eventually happens, it will mean so much more.
I don’t know who else they could make captain, both Hunt & Bird are gone.
Cook will be captain
Ah, forgot about Cook.
It’s between gutho and Damien cook I think flanno said. Gutho will be captain in my view. I wish gutho all the best. Just not vs us at parra 😅
I agree Muz.
Goodbye Gutho and thanks!
Nobody will question your effort.
And Now we wait!
I have zero issues with letting him go.
Senior Players have had a big day in driving the culture some would say that was what hurt BA at the end.
Gutho has played his contract negotiations out in the media each time and got paid well as a result
Culture needs a big shift Gutho and RCG were both notorious for not been great with fan engagement.
We got the best years of Gutho’s career now he can secure another pay day before he calls it quits.
New era beginning now