Last week, TCT was inundated with quality responses to our first feedback post. We’re very proud of the readers who respond on our site because you drive intelligent football conversation.
With that in mind, I’m taking a little back to the future journey that I hope generates opinions out in Eel land.
Back in the early 80’s, Parramatta built a succession of premierships through a side containing what was arguably the most talented club backline in rugby league history, and a tradesman-like pack of forwards. It’s a team structure that’s not unlike our current squad.
The 1981 Premiers.
Unquestionably, the game has changed and players are bigger, faster and stronger than they’ve ever been. As a point of comparison, Bevan French is virtually identical in height and weight to Brett Kenny, yet few would have questioned whether Bert was big enough for first grade. Even Origin half Mitchell Pearce takes the field bigger than his famous lock forward father, Wayne.
The great Brett Kenny in action in the 81 GF.
So is it relevant to draw any parallels with successes from the past when considering our chances this year?
In 2017, the Eels are fielding a fast and classy back line that’s easily the equivalent of the 2001 Parramatta team. That side qualified for the grandfinal. That team also set some incredible point scoring records, something that certainly won’t happen this season. Yet, I wonder whether we have already been given a glimpse of the current team’s potential with the recent scintillating tries put on by our backline.
The 2001 Eels contained a lethal back line.
With big units like Frank Pritchard and Peni Terepo about to return from injury, is their inclusion essential for the Eels to have any impact in the end of season clashes? Or, have our smaller, mobile forwards been the key to a scrambling defence on which our victories have been founded?
Certainly, Brad Arthur sees the recruitment of big forwards as a priority. With Kane Evans and Willis Meehan already locked in, the blueprint for 2018 has already been drawn.
So inevitably the question becomes whether significant changes need to be made right now to a side which has been victorious in 8 of their last 11 matches. Smaller doesn’t have to mean less aggressive. Both Nathan Brown and Manu Ma’u have demonstrated that you don’t have to be a behemoth to be a dominant forward. Maybe, for the purpose of winning the ruck, the answer is as simple as following their lead
So, over to you Eels fans. Will forward size matter for the Eels? Can our current team structure get the job done?
Eels forever!
Sixties
Interesting article ,just seems that a couple of big mobile boppers complete the picture , kane evans good on his feet ,havent really seen enough of meehan to comment but apparently his size was enhanced by his mobility in nyc ,wether hes slowed up since then remains to be seen but a boxers training does entail of lot of fast lateral movement footwork , we shall see. !
Good call. I think we’re still one prop short for an ideal balance next year. With that said, our side at the moment is pretty successful without Kane Evans, let alone my added suggestion.
As mentioned by Sixties, add in Peni and Fritchard, as well as the return of mongrel in Beau Scott and you wonder how far away we could be. Still, despite all of that, I just want one more cannonball of a prop (either of the media’s recent speculations over Junior Paulo or Latu would have been perfect IMO, but both have publicly denied said reports)
But that’s me.
Good points Mitch, and BA will always look to improve the squad each year. I’m just wondering where we’re at right now, with this squad. BA probably has the type of decisions coming up that he hasn’t had to face all year – who misses out?
Interesting Mitch that both have denied anything, as Vave did i think last season. Time will tell. I agree we need one established NRL prop and size too. We need a guy who will take defenders with him and bend the line each time…and Evans and Vave to feed off along with the second phase.
Thanks Chika. Willis is seriously the biggest human I’ve seen on a footy field. If he proves himself worthy of NRL inclusion next year, he’ll be a handful.
I think our big Props are great for making meters, obviously the Timmy Mannah’s and the Matagi’s to get us out of trouble. But I LOVE the ball-playing big men. Feleti Mateo was always awesome to watch and his offloading was superb and a real asset to our 2009 charge.
I’d like to see a Nathan Brown or a Kenny Edwards making that intial contact and then slipping a pass back for Gutherson probing up the middle or Moses or Norman to get that second phase offence rolling. I love it when Parra play with that razzle-dazzle flair, it’s when I know we’re confident and playing positive.
Thanks John. There was nothing quite like an in-form Feleti. BTW, you can catch a larger version of him running around for Hills Bulls in RM Cup.
Although BA would acknowledge that we haven’t played our best, I’d dare say he hasn’t shown his hand fully yet. Maybe you’ll see more of what you want.
Agree there are similarities but the significant difference in my opinion is the 2001 team had a number of players who could break the line (Drew, PJ Marsh, Buetner & Lyon) and ball-playing forwards (Vella, Ryan & Hindmarsh early career).
I’m a big believer in momentum, the 2001 team won most of their round robin games. Our current forwards competed effectively 2016 and have competed in patches this year. We are currently on a mini roll (no other top 8 team has no losses in past 5 games). We have a relatively easy draw so could enter the finals with the benefit of momentum – if we win 5 or 6 from 7 I don’t think forward size will matter.
The point you make about momentum is really significant DDay. Given that the Eels are yet to deliver a complete performance, I truly believe that their best football is ahead of them. I reckon we are building into it.
Great article, sixties, and an interesting question. I think for the most part Brad Arthur sees a hard working middle as the key to defence. For this reason the bulk of our pack will remain guys like Mannah, Alvaro and Moeroa. If we need more height in our team it will be to complement the ‘smaller’ (if you can say that about blokes over 105kg) workers, not to replace them.
Thanks Pou. The worker forwards in the middle have scrambled quite well defensively. The concern for some has been the lack of impact through the centre with ball in hand. We haven’t benefitted from ref calls in the ruck or offside calls and teams like the dogs dominated the second half through the middle against us due to the latitude they were given in defence. That said, it could be argued that we needed to earn the penalty by fighting more in the tackle or being more aggressive in our carries.
I would be surprised if we didn’t see Peni sooner rather than later.
And yes, our small forwards would have been classed as big men in years gone by!
The future years at the Eels will be very exciting. With the critical mass and coach already signed until 2019 it will be exciting to see how the next 2 years unfolds. I agree with most here that whilst we already have good depth in the Backline and Edge forwards with the current roster and junior players that are coming thru, we probably need 1 or 2 more Middle forwards. I see with other clubs that the trend is for bigger forwards with different body shapes and that is where we need to upgrade. As mentioned by others Kane Evans and Willis Meehan have already been signed but I would like to see one or two more before the 2018 season.
Since BA started at the club in 2014 he has debuted 36 players into the Eels NRL team with the latest being Cameron King. Of these 7 have been NRL rookies while the rest have made their debut at other clubs. That is a lot of players and at this point I am not sure that he will continue to introduce new players at this rate. I think also that we will begin to see a few more juniors begin to filter thru the career pathways which they have worked hard at to form to ensure the best of our emerging talent is coming thru and not lost to other clubs.
In the short term I look forward to see Peni Terepo join the 17 again and see how BA uses players like F Pritchard, Auva’a, Hoffman and Gower as the rest of the season unfolds. It is interesting that 2 of our really successful signings in M Jennings and Mitchel Moses have come by being patient and keeping salary cap spare for “Opportunist” purchases as the market opens up. This may just happen again as the Salary cap is finally settled for 2018.
Outstanding comment John, especially your research about player debuts.
The next 2-3 years will be very exciting.
Our g/f winning teams always had big front rowers in the team. Bob O’Reilly (not sure who was the other bookend) in 1981 and Bugden along with a series of big forwards (Leadbeater plus others) with him along with real workers in backrow.
Not sure how far we’ll go this year but doubt we’ll progress past second week. With the inclusion of several more big boppers and a bit more experience throughout squad we should improve again next year. The halves seem to be improving each week and Moses’ tackling along with it.
Agreed Glenn, a range of Big props with one a mobile prop; and backrow workers with a ball player too; our backs can match any on their day; but defensively is the key.
Thanks for responding Glenn. Actually, our 81 pack was not big at all. The other prop was converted hooker Ron Hilditch and Stumpy Stevens was in the back row with Muggo. Chris Phelan (not a big bloke) was the prop in 82 alongside Bugden and Mares and Jurd were the 83 props.
You make an excellent point about the halves. Moses defence has improved and will continue to do so.
Nice article and thank you for the opportunity to give voice to the coach inside all of us. As always in BA we trust and we all agree we are in need of some big props. I like Kane Evans but don’t think he will be the marquee prop that we need. Easier said than done but we need a Marty Taupau like prop that can really put us on the front foot, add our current stock of Brown, Mau, Tepai and we have the makings of a premiership side, I think we are hoping rather believing this year
Matagi got off to a flyer against Manly but has only shown glimpses since, Vave needs some more fitness and Mannah looks to be reaching the end quickly, he seems to be in HIA land the minute the ref blows the whistle to start the game. Peni will be good to get back, he seems to have fixed his handling issues, Pritchard is a big body and I thought was worth a shot but don’t think he has really offered much in the games we saw him.
The other position we all discuss is Hooker, there just aren’t any going around, similar dearth of quality as with halfbacks. King is proving himself to be up to the task, his service from dummy half is crisp and he has shown glimpses of a kicking game which would give us three options for kickers, a real luxury. The real benefit of King will be seen next year if Kaysa can come back strong, Kaysa is an impact player who can run amok against tired defence. He is probably a little too small and too braves for his body size and is an injury waiting to happen as his record shows when playing 80 min.
The only disappointing part of our backline is that we lose Semi next year, hopefully for only half the year, he couldn’t possibly chose the French Riviera over Parramatta river, could he ??
Jimmy, you’ve raised the topic of Cameron King and I’d like to expand on that. This bloke has been incredibly tenacious and patient throughout his career. Injuries have dealt some cruel blows, so nothing has been handed on a platter to him at all. He’s back in first grade through hard work and he looks like he belongs there.
The other thing I like about King is that he has a kicking game that none of our current or more recent dummy halves have had. I too admire the incredible patience and commitment he has shown to keep turning up for Wenty whilst never dropping his head, his 1st grade call up is well deserved. I really hope he can make the hooker role his own with Kaysa or Smith to share the impact/utility role from the bench.
Thanks for a great article Sixties.
I saw Willis Meehan at the Junior Members day and was surprised by his size for his age and also the way he seemed to already be a part of the team and squad. He was joking around with the boys and looked like he’d been a part of the team for a long time. It made me think that he’s more than just a bloke who has been signed to play for Wenty this year.
I think Kane Evans will bring good size, impact and mobility. I hope he’s a big success as an Eel.
With the addition of Moses and the form of the rest of our backs over the last little while, I really think good times are ahead. I don’t expect us to make any real charge to the title this year but who knows? Once you get to the finals it’s one game at a time. Melbourne look like the title is theirs but how often does a red hot favourite miss out? Look at 2001!
Thanks for replying Camo. Were you there early at the Junior Members day when the team were finishing their training?
The boys have really made Willis feel like he’s part of the squad. He joins in with some opposed work and continues to work hard at his fitness.
He is seriously the biggest human I’ve seen on a footy field!
If we’re talking forwards…
Thought Terepo was prime for a big season this year, with the suspension then the injury we really havent seen the best of him this year. I really think we need him firing at the back end of this season, his runs are cruicial off the bench. No one really runs harder at the line.
Also a lot of people forget the huge loss in Danny Wick. In terms of size and speed in the forwards that really put us behind this season.
Mannah doesnt seem to be having the same impact as previous years, i’ve always been a fan and defended him when people use to bag him, but he seems lost this year…
The thing about Tim is he often plays through injury, and makes no fuss about it. He still has a role to play and remains a crucial part of the team.
Glad you raised Wicksy. His decision came after the end of 2016 and was not expected. It was a crucial loss so when you throw in the loss of Terepo for most of this year, we were down on big bloke troops.
I reckon we’ll see Baz very soon.
And goissy , whole front row !!
Very true Chika.
Very interesting Sixties, and a good question which has once again stimulated many a varied response.
Personally, I believe that size does matter, especially in the middle of the ruck. Many NRL coaches if not all NRL coaches who are and who have been successful in recent times. Think Mebourne, huge pack adding the the tiny Kasiano at seasons end to an already monster pack. Even those teams who were not successful but have become more so by means of increasing the overall size of their middle forwards during the recent off season ie St George Illawarra who as part of their new approach at the end of last season decided to add Paul Vaughn to build the platform in the middle with size first. Then there is Manly whom I hate to include in the same breath as “successful” but for this exercise have been building their recruitment and junior development around the addition of large forwards over the previous couple of seasons they’ve even included big edge forwards in Winterstein and Sironen. I wont bore you with further examples, but I’m sure you get the picture.
In order for an NRL coach to to utilize skill, smarts and guile in his spine to exploit the speed and power in his outside backs and edge forwards it appears imperative that one must gain the yards through the middle first. It is just a staple requirement for a competitive footy team.
There is nothing wrong with Matagi, Brown, Beau Scott or Manu Mau who bring mongrel, skill and aggressive defence and ball carries, but none of these fellas are big bodies by any measure, but their job will be made easier if the right big men can take the sting out of our oppositions big men when added to our top 17.
From where I sit, it appears to be developing nicely. Go Parra.
BA knows that! BA has shown that he is a supporter of that theory by the inclusion of size at our club every off season and there is more coming for next years roster in Meehan, Evans and ?
Yes, Rowdy. Provided the NRL doesn’t get too “soft” on its 2018 cap, there may well be late purchases available as clubs look to offload. Finding the right type of big man is important and for mine the key is mobility, attitude and aggression. Fifita at his best provides both, and his charges through the middle were the basis of the Sharks premiership last year. Kane Evans has both mobility and aggression. We are working on Meehan’s mobility.
Ultimately, a team needs to be filled with players with the right attitude. Central to that is to never give up. You see players giving up on plays when they think they are beaten in defence – they drop out. Look at how the NSW forwards dropped out of key plays in Origin when Morgan created that try through the ruck. They had given up and were walking. Would Queensland forwards do that?
Hence, whatever big men are included, they must have the right attitude. If not, size won’t matter.
Big bodies…hmmmm!
Look at the current Top 4…
Storm has Bromwich, Harris and Solomona.
Roosters have JWH, Evans, Napa and a few more.
Broncos have Blair, Ese’Ese, McGuire at least
Sea Eagles have Lussock, Tapau, Sironen, Big Jake…
But then look at the bottom four (well let’s ignore the Knights for obvious reasons for the minute).
Tigers have Woods and Sue .
The Rabbits have the Burgess boys.
The Dogs have Big Sam, Eastwood, Graham, Tolman and Klemperer.
Where am I going with all this???
I think it shows that while size can provide you with an advantage it is far from the secret ingredient to success in September.
I think the game these days has progressed to a point where finding an individual teams balance between size, speed and skill is a coach and recruitment departments biggest challenge/headache.
Errors and discipline are (in my humble opinion) the two most important factors to being a serious contender. Minimise penalties conceded, shut down your tackles, complete your sets and a good kicking game are much more relevant.
Having said that, I’d like to take this opportunity to welcome Kane Evans and Willis Meehan to the team for 2018 and if Jnr wants to come back for a normal salary then I would happily be the one to offer a welcome home cuddle assuming I can beat Kenny to the front of the line.
Top comment Jonboy. That balance can also mean that a player who is successful at one club might move and not find success elsewhere. The opposite is also true, where you see evidence of players finding success elsewhere and you wonder why their club let them go. The Storm are a great example of the importance of balance. They are very specific in recruitment every year. They have that core of talent and the additions every year aren’t nobodies, but rather (underrated) talents that meet the team’s need.
JonBoy your comment is spot on. The best argument that big bodies are essential to bring success is the Broncos. They would probably have the smallest pack in the top 4 but they showed against the Dogs that it is irrelevant. Don’t get me wrong I still think that a good big man will always beat a good small man.
The challenge as Sixties points out is finding the right big man with the qualities and skill you desire.
Thanks Jonboy/Sixtiesboy, totally agree with you both, You’ve basically said (much better than I) what I’ve been mulling over to say to those who think a couple of big forwards will solve Parras problems. Big is not always better. By all means have big forwards who are 100% committed all game like Ma’u etc, not the Klemmers that slacken of when the chips are down. bring back the Bear!
Thinking about this a bit more and Just having a look at some stats for some big men. Peni Terepo (2016), Nelson Asofa Solomona and Jesse Bromwich. They are all big guys but their work and stats vary. However, it must be remembered that Solomona is only young and still learning his craft.
Solomona
29 mins a game, 18.8 tackles, 8 runs, 7 hit ups,19 Tk, 1.4 missed Tk and 76 run metres.
Bromwich
50 mins a game, 24 tackles, 12.5 runs, 10 hit ups, 24 Tk, 2.3 missed Tk and 123 run metres.
Terepo
38 mins a game, 23 tackles, 10 runs, 8 hit ups, 23 Tk, missed Tk 0.6 and 83 run metres.
Terepo is clearly the smallest of the 3. Having said that he is still 186 cm 105 Kg’s. Solomona is 120 cm’s and 115 Kg’s, Bromwich the same size only 5 Cm’s shorter at 195 Cm’s.
Terepo’s defence rate is very impressive averaging 38 minutes and 23 tackles a game and this would appeal to BA. Peni also has very good post contact metres as well.