The Cumberland Throw

The Spotlight – Predicting Premiership Success

How difficult is it to predict the NRL Premiership winner?

Some would suggest that it’s quite simple. They theorise that you can shortlist teams boasting a high number of representative level players and that history supports such a theory.

A study of recent NRL premiers makes for interesting analysis.

In 2018, the Roosters boasted a grand final squad that defied the impact that the salary cap has on most clubs. Nine of the starting team had Origin or International honours on their resume. Of those that didn’t, Keary and Manu went on to play test football after the season was completed.

Manu became an international after the grand final.

Even the Roosters bench contained three players with a representative background. Of the three players still without higher honours, Radley is arguably a future certainty, Matterson has played for City and Aubusson is one of the true quality utility players in the NRL.

The success of the Bondi outfit supports the importance of assembling a squad of high quality players. For that to be close to all of your Top 17 is quite a feat to achieve.

To add weight to this method of achieving success, the previous two Premiership winning teams have been similarly gifted.

In 2017 Addo-Carr was a future Origin star.

The 2017 Storm team trotted out an eerily similar number of representative players in their winning grand final team. Nine of their starting 13 went into the match with Origin or International experience, with another two sitting on the bench.

Like the Roosters, another two starters – Addo Carr and McLean – would go on to higher honours. Impressively, the other two bench players – Asofa-Solomona and Griffin – later represented New Zealand.

The numbers become impossible to deny when you examine the 2016 premiers, the Sharks. Wait for it … their starting grand final team also boasted nine players with Origin or International experience. How many later achieved that honour? Yes, it was two with Holmes and Prior getting a rep call up.

Holmes hit the rep scene soon after the Sharks won.

And their bench? Try all four. As for the Sharks who haven’t gone on to play representative football, it’s only Ben Barba and Chad Townsend, pretty fair players in their own right.

Even going back to the 2015 Cowboys team reveals similar numbers. Their starting side included seven internationals plus two who had played for Scotland. Ben Hannant sat on their bench.

Is it possible to find a recent premiership team that defied such trends? The most obvious unexpected Premiers in the NRL era were the 2005 Wests Tigers.

Benji and that pass.

Consider this – only four of their top 13 had any representative experience. Brett Hodgson had played for NSW, Paul Whatuira was a Kiwi rep, Benji Marshall had debuted for New Zealand that season and Scott Prince had become a Maroon.

Just four others would later earn higher honours – Farah, Laffranchi, Heighington and Richards (Ireland). This was no team of “champions” but rather a championship winning team.

The Tigers squad didn’t go on to feature regularly in finals football. Does this support the need to maintain a strong core of representative players to achieve sustained success? 

Conversely, was this evidence of success being possible if the combinations in a team hit a purple patch at the right time of year? The Eels run in 2009 should arguably have provided another example were it not for the cap cheating Storm team.

What about our premiership winning Eels teams? Given that Premiership success came with a burst in the 1980s, the most prudent examination is of the 1981 team.

Brett Kenny was a star on the rise in 1981.

That 1981 Eels team boasted seven players with representative experience. Seems reasonable. A breakdown reveals a more interesting picture. Of those seven, both Grothe and Sterling had one Origin to their name, Edge had a single appearance for NSW and the Bear had not played rep footy since 1974. 

Truthfully, going into the Grand Final, the only representative mainstays were Cronin and Price. 

Of course, the success was to come in the future for others. Grothe and Sterling became superstars and were joined in Australian teams by Ella, Kenny and Muggleton. Throw in the injured Peter Wynn to that team and that representative core was formed.

So for the 1981 team, that first success was probably the prelude for a club that would in future field a representative backline unlike any other of their era. Indeed, for that 1981 team, success was hardly built on the back of experience but rather emerging talent with a small dose of essential old campaigners to guide them.

It seems incredible in today’s game that a premiership could be won with such inexperience. That starting team for the Eels only totalled 1115 games of premiership football, including the grand final itself. The two bench players, Sharp and Taylor, had accrued just 35 games combined.

Consider the experience of these players: McKenzie 23 games, Atkins 63, Ella 22, Grothe 28, Kenny 33, Sterling 49 and Muggleton 15. Even one of the noted “hard heads” of the team, Stumpy Stevens, had only racked up 79 games. Before the season started those numbers read McKenzie 0, Atkins 41, Ella 4, Grothe 16, Kenny 8, Sterling 24, Muggleton 7, and Stevens 60.

To put this in perspective, at the start of that season, the Sterling, Kenny, Ella, Grothe combination had a grand total of 52 first grames between them.

So, is overall NRL experience another important factor? How do recent Premiers stack up with regard to premiership experience? 

It reads like this:

Roosters – 1994 games for the starting 13 plus 394 on the bench

Storm – 1907 games for the starting 13 plus 263 on the bench

Sharks – 2031 games for the starting 13 plus a whopping 718 on the bench

These recent figures suggest that a premiership winning side will field at least 2100 games of experience across their 17 players.

But what of our anomaly – the 2005 Tigers team? They could only post 1414 games for their starting 13 with just 269 games for the bench. Incredibly, the Tigers top 17 won their title with over 400 fewer games than recent premiers. Can it be done again?

And the burning question for Eels fans. How do we stand? To be clear, there are no wild claims of a premiership here, but do the Eels measure up statistically to match it with the top teams? Are the Eels top 17 close to that 2100 NRL games mark? Are there enough representative quality players?

A potential Round 1 Eels team could look like this:

Gutherson – 66 games

Ferguson – 192 – NSW, Australia

Jennings, M – 259 – NSW, Australia, Tonga

Salmon – 5

Jennings, G – 25

Brown – 0

Moses – 105 – Lebanon

Paulo – 108 – Samoa

Mahoney – 9

Alvaro – 68 – Italy

Lane – 48

Moeroa – 90

Brown – 69 – Italy

That’s 1044 NRL games. If you add approximately 260 games for the season (a conservative average of 20 games per player) you get a potential total of 1304 games for the starting 13.

Mannah – 223 – NSW, Lebanon

Niukore – 14 – Cook Islands

Ma’u – 95 – Tonga, New Zealand

Kaufusi – 2

That’s a total 334 games for the bench plus an additional 80 for the season to give a season ending tally of 414 games. The potential team tally being 1638 games, well shy of the 2100 mark. 

Jenko – one of the few Eels internationals

There are six players with representative experience in the starting 13, but that includes Italy and Lebanon jerseys. Three bench players have higher honours, including Niukore with a Cook Islands appearance.

Such figures align more with the Tigers 2005 team than recent premiers. Including inexperienced players such as Salmon (five games), Brown (0 games), Mahoney (9 games), Niukore (14 games) and Kaufusi (2 games) would be a bold selection move. It would be both an indicator of a youth policy and an investment in the future, rather than a goal of immediate success.

Waiting in the wings are other debutants. If they play this year, that experience level across the squad drops further.

These numbers might provide a reminder that we should temper our expectations for 2019.

Dylan Brown – what will the future bring?

Alternately, the statistics read eerily similar to a 1981 Eels team light in experience but heavy in talent. There’s no suggestion that the current batch of young Eels will be able to be compared to the youngsters of 1981, simply that we have a group of players at the beginning of their careers.

Of course other factors such as injuries, and well-timed form will have their say in deciding the Premiership. The successful teams always use significantly fewer players than the teams anchored near the bottom of the table.

But, with history supporting those who subscribe to the theory that boasting rep players and over 2100 games of experience is the path to NRL success, maybe you should start doing your numbers.

Picking this year’s winner could simply involve investigating a couple of statistics.

Eels forever!

Sixties

Credit to TCT reader, “10 year Member” for suggesting this topic.

Thanks to The Sydney Morning Herald, NRL and Parramatta Eels for the images used.

http://www.starrpartners.com.au/office/starr-partners-auburn

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53 thoughts on “The Spotlight – Predicting Premiership Success

  1. Seth hardie

    Great detail sixties! It is no secret our most success came with the introduction of a group of talented juniors around a core of experience in the eighties. It appears very similar conditions now. If not this year then surely next the newguard will arrive in numbers. Will we see Stephano sooner or later? Thanks sixties.

    1. Poppa

      Good article mate, I am normally a bit bored with statistics, but the picture being painted was interesting…….not the least being that the clubs with what we will call TPA’s would be the one’s that can build and retain a premiership team.

      This said I am cynical with regard to how Roosters have managed to manipulate the cap with aid of a multi millionaire chairman and an infrastructure of top business names from the world of television and broadcasting in general. The Cooper Cronk scenario is pointed to say the least in that lets assume he can be paid a “post retirement” scholarship to go to Harvard and a clean run into heading the Fox football delivery in due course.
      Am I jealous that we have not been able to do that….you bet I am!
      I am also conscious by the way that we now have a back office administration that is as good as you are going to get and the best that Parra has ever had. I am also conscious that we still have people in the system that are trying to undermine all the good progress we have made.

      The constitution is coming up again and it is no coincidence that a well planned attack will again come forward against our achievement and the activation of the facility to embed our long term management principles, whether they are the current encumbents is getting too close to politics but we need a support of all members and fans to get the constitution right.
      The Cumberland Throw rightfully has no real role to play in club politics but I think that your media should be out there now, explaining the issues, having Bernie and Max putting forward their plans once the constitutional changes are enacted and what members need to do to make it happen.
      I live in Queensland but I have followed Parra all my life like many on here, for our sake fella’s……make it happen! Please!

      1. sixties Post author

        Poppa the Cumberland Throw have been very involved. Before the last meeting to vote on the constitution, Chris organised for us to sit down with Max for around 90 minutes and from that we published an audio interview.
        Furthermore, I have spoken at the last two meetings and Chris was a major organiser when we needed the previous board to stand down.
        But what we need, what we continue to push for, is for members to turn up to vote. To get around 200 members at these meetings is nothing short of disgraceful.

        1. Poppa

          its not a critique Craig, as you know I fly in and fly out trying to get the best of all worlds and obviously was not aware of what is being done and has been done.
          Its great that you guys are on top of it and giving it a go (and yes I sort of knew you were on top of it)….of course living in Brisbane and not being qualified to vote make myself and many would be members impotent in this area.

          The new constitution will change all that with postal votes admitted. It is pretty scary when you think of the rationale the antagonists for non change would put out there!

          Here’s hoping, maybe some members reading this discussion maybe motivated that little bit more to turn up.

          1. sixties Post author

            Didn’t see it as a critique Poppa, just letting you know. And incidentally, I could go into more details, but we try to keep TCT as much about the footy as possible.
            But anyone who thinks that going straight back into full elections with all of the factional rubbish is a good thing, think again. This whole fight against reform is being driven by said factions. It’s actually factionalism in full flight before our very eyes. Dumbfounding stuff.

    2. sixties Post author

      Cheers Seth. I’d be looking at playing Stefano at some stage this year. My honest opinion is that these young blokes are the real deal, but there’s a lot of difference between lower grades and NRL.

  2. DDay

    Good analysis Sixties, you make a strong case for the need for longevity and representative experience. There are however other variable(s) at play,
    In 2018 the Eels picked up the spoon. The squad from Game 1 had 1200 games & 7 representatives in the run on team with 500 games & 4 internationals across the 4 on the bench. Add the 340 potential games if that squad stayed together and its not too far different to the 3 premiership winners analysed. Starting team 2018 1 Bevan French, 2 Josh Hoffman, 3 Michael Jennings, 4 Jarryd Hayne, 5 Kirisome Auva’a, 6 Corey Norman, 7 Mitchell Moses, 8 Daniel Alvaro, 9 Cameron King, 10 Tim Mannah (c), 11 Manu Ma’u, 12 Tepai Moeroa, 13 Nathan Brown. – 14 Beau Scott (c), 15 Brad Takairangi, 16 Suaia Matagi, 17 Kane Evans.
    What are the other variables…?
    By the way, I like the look of the team nominated.
    Only 4 players (Moses, Alvaro, Mannah, Mennings) survive starting 2018 to be in prospective team this year.

    1. sixties Post author

      The draw is also a factor, especially if you have a favourable draw at particular times during the season eg Origin. Stringing wins is also important, not just for points but for confidence. We played devoid of that n 2018. Having strong kickers, general play and goal kicking is vital for all teams. We missed vital opportunities for two points in 2018.

      1. Glenn

        Agree 60s but we had a horrendous injury toll with 31 players injured. There appears to be a direct correlation between the amount of injuries and your place on the ladder, and Parramatta always appear to have many. Just as perplexing is why teams that regularly make the 8 have a low toll year after year. Until we can fix this problem we’ll never feature regularly in the 8.

        1. sixties Post author

          Yes, I mentioned injuries and the correlation between that and table position.
          Maybe keeping track of injuries, their type, and when they occurred would be a good exercise. I’m sure the club does?

  3. colin hussey

    Very interesting article sixties, while the 80’s are seen and rightfully so as our most successful naturally they stick on our minds more especially the 81 first win, of interest then is to a comparison if its possible with the teams we had in the other 3 grand final wins.

    Dare I also suggest a look at the 2009 squad as well as it was very much a late run successful one that bubbled along in a year of off field and internal issues. I would not have suggest that year but this topic is quirky for me.

    We moved out of Western Sydney early 2010, and had been packing for ages, the move to the CC was good but for me its interesting that we had many boxes packed from that move right through our 7 1/2 years there, we finally moved into our home on Pearl Harbour remembrance day last year, 7th December and still working with box unpacking and finding spots for the items. Today I unpacked a box that was packed up in 2009, the last item to come out of that box was wrapped up with two large SMH pages, the old broadsheets.

    I was about to toss it when I turned the paper over and there was a large colour photo of the eels playing the cowboys, the pic had Hayne with the ball, Reddy coming up in support or he could have just scored a try, also in the pic was Nathan Hindmarsh and Chris Keating. This was part of the match report which showed the eels winning 28-18 Headline grabber Hayne Fires as Parra find the Matter,

    Above that review, was a spread under the title Something in the air as guard changes at Leagues club, thus comes a report about Fitzy losing out.

    SMH Weekend Edition May 2-3 2009.

    The page will be put in my memorabilia pack. I don’t believe in omens or the like but interesting for me that these two articles from a year that had for many so much positive thinking of a new era, and I guess they were right, me included sadly it was not the new era we had looked for back then even with success on the field even though short. 2019 marks close enough to 10 years since then, there is a new future in the PLC and its administration & how the club is going, and in so many ways a new era/future for the eels as a playing team along with the big changes wrought in with other off field appointments.

    Apologies if this blurb is not exactly on the article itself, but I sense the coincidence in this year, this thread and this article showing up as it has.

    1. sixties Post author

      Colin, there’s quite a few hours of research in those stats in the post, so I’m happy if anybody else wants to add to the data. A quick look at the 2009 Eels shows 6 starters and two bench players with rep experience. The interesting and unexpected stat is in the halves. Robson had 28 games and Mortimer had 18. That’s quite a level of inexperience for a grand final team.

      1. 10 Year Member

        Seriously, I loved that season, saved as many games as i could to my hard drive ,when the NRL.com was free 12 hours after a match. Lets admit that was one of those 1 in 1000 seasons, JH was just playing out of his skin. He was superb, however, I cannot no longer live in the back draft. We forgave and he let himself down.

  4. Milo

    This is a superb article Sixties – to me it highlights the experience that some teams accrue lets say and also how they keep them. It asks more questions me thinks…Cronulla have had salary cap issues as we have seen and lest say easts have had questions asked and seem to have very strong TPA’s and Melb, well they’re a one town team with some good help.
    For me Parra just need to keep the right players and build around the main core. I just hope they can do well for the club, us supporters and the coach!
    Go parra and i only hope they can improve on last yr and maybe make a run for the 8 with less injuries.
    Great read sixties.

    1. sixties Post author

      Thanks mate. I honestly see these young players as the driving force of the club moving forward. They have coaches who believe in them and will take them forward.

  5. Gazzamatta

    Great article 60s.
    Our recruitment in recent years has tried to address the experience issue with either little good fortune or poor decisions some of which are recognised in hindsight. Our new youthful direction is very pleasing and in my opinion long overdue. That said, similar risks are involved.
    Its true our graduates of 1981 were a special group indeed but lets not forget the Gibson and Massey influence. Being a long time supporter I have see numerous young players of amazing talent who never reached the career heights many were capable of in my opinion. Great coaches and support staff provide the development required. My greatest wish is we have the appropriate people in charge to develop the class of 2019. We have an amazing opportunity. Fingers crossed.

    1. sixties Post author

      I have faith in how the young talent will be developed. From their progression through the grades, inclusion in Jets and their preparation for the preseason, it’s been a well planned process

  6. 10 Year Member

    Thanks Sixties, you did more justice to the topic than I could have expected. Well done. We talk about the front office needs to be solid, but what work does the front office need to be doing? we know third party deals are arms length (tyring to hide the snickering), how do we get more? do we say to an agent, you bring your player here with a 350k TPA and we will pay them 700k to play for us? this extra money is what gets you a quality player or to keep a quality player. what about our recruitment and retention committee, do we have one, do they have football smarts to know the perfect mix a team needs for success. Should they look at more mongrels in the forward pack, who let opposition teams know they have play Parra after a game and think twice when they play us next time? So many questions, whilst like many on this page, I am happy we have youth coming through, I think we need to get so much more in order to have a change at a tilt to the premiership.

    1. sixties Post author

      Whether it’s true or not, recent reports have the Eels offering contracts to Graham and Burgess. So if true, they’re thinking like you. Peter Sharp has been our senior recruitment person at the club. Not sure how the structure is working now, especially with the addition of O’Neill.
      So we saw recently that the Roosters don’t have a huge number of TPAs. It’s terrible to think that we want transparency, but when we have details revealed, we don’t believe it. And I’m one who doesn’t believe it.

      1. 10 Year Member

        100% aligned on the non-believer, I call BS on that. Something is going on, just not logical on how they can afford and keep everyone. But we need to chart our own destiny. Problem is, everyone interested in Parra with power is aligned to their own interests, our Leagues Club is so powerful and everyone wants to milk the cow for their own PSI (personal self interest). The sad thing is, I really believe Steve Sharp (even with BA comments and wanting to be paid more) had Parra’s interests at heart. IMHO, he was niave at the power play within the eels and got smoothered. We need better, but geez, who will be like Uncle Nic? 1,000,000 question. Look, like any supporter, I want success……I am sick and tired of getting kicked around by all and sundry when I mention I LOVE the eels.

  7. John Eel

    Sixties I really like this post. It is such an important part of team planning and building.There are other points that can be made as well like playing with a run on side with less than 700 games will just about guarantee the Wooden Spoon.

    Another point I would make is that going too far to get experience can be detrimental. This is due to the fact that the players are getting older and more susceptible to injury and loss of athleticism.

    I believe that most clubs should be aiming at 1400 to 1900 games in the run on side to get in the top 4. Rep players are also mandatory to make the big step to the big dance

    1. sixties Post author

      It’s an interesting study when it comes to assembling a squad. Prior to Cronulla winning, there were two criticisms.
      1. How could they afford to keep buying so many experienced players?
      2. Were they neglecting local talent in doing so?
      They got their title.
      They have lost young talent over the last couple of years as a result, eg Salmon and Scott, but it got results.

      1. John Eel

        The Roosters have subscribed to the “experienced player” plan for some Years. It has given them two GF’s and a few Minor Premierships and plenty of top 4, top 8 finishes. The Storm similar.

        1. 10 Year Member

          Jonno, but why is it so? Sixties mentioned their TPA’s are not out of this world. How do they attract so many players willing to play for unders? Of course the Eastern Suburbs lifestyle, that does not come cheap, look at the rentals over there with us. We need to chart our own destiny.

          1. sixties Post author

            Yes, that Roosters side is both cap compliant and without a large TPA component. 🤔
            When the club TPAs were published, the Roosters surprised everyone. If they had revealed big TPAs everyone would have nodded and maybe moved on, even if with some envy. But I was more dubious than ever.

  8. Paul taylor

    The key is to bring a core group of exceptional kids through at the same time . Fill the team with a few hard edged forwards and game managers and let the kids develop . We seem to have this mindset again now and if these kids show up our window is going to be. 2020 to 2022 . Good strategy if the kids turn out to be good ones .

    1. 10 Year Member

      PT, that is the dream….so lets assume we ahve teh gifted kids!, whom are our hard edge forwards? TM should come good, he has been blooded over a long time, Manu with his arm being shattered has never been the same….Although, I must state, I agree with you 100%, we need players whom punish the opposition in the middle….one cog of many in the overall puzzle.

    2. sixties Post author

      The fact that there are a group of these young players who know each other very well and support each other so strongly is assisting their transition to the full time squad.

  9. John Eel

    The Roosters won the GF and minor Premiership in 2013 (bad year for the Eels). It was during that year that I took a serious interest in experience in NRL teams. After having spent some years living in AFL state WA I knew it was something important to them.

    From memory the Roosters had around 1800 games in their run on team for that year and it was one of the highest in the NRL. As a result of that I was happy to see BA starting to chase experience in the recruits he went after.

    When it comes to rep skill I have always thought that Origin, Kangaroos, Kiwis and England have been the benchmark.

    When you look back at the Eels of 2009 I feel that their lack of experience in the halves hurt them badly in that GF against the Storm, not to mention the fact that the Storm were over the cap. What made the cheating worse was after the 2009 GF the Eels lost players to stay under the cap for 2010. One went to the Storm.

    At that time I had built a spreadsheet using different markers to pick NRL winners. At the peak in 2017 I tipped 10 consecutive 3 x team multis. I have since lost interest in the spreadsheet as I am not a gambler. But interestingly one of my markers was picking any team who had 400 or more games experience than their opponents. I have since lost the USB but I am pretty certain that it was correct around 80% of the time. Which is a very high return.

    As another aside and adding to some of Poppa’s thoughts, most teams are forced to shed players or at least struggle to maintain their squad. The Roosters this year have added Creighton, Morris and Ryan the English winger to their team. So how is that for adding Rep quality after winning the GF.

    I would not be able to bet against the Roosters going back to back.

      1. Milo

        Yes mate its quite laughable really….its very comical how they lose one avg first grader and pick up them and yes they’ve lost Fergo too

  10. Offside

    It is a question of not so much cap management but cap priorities.
    In most cases roosters and storm the last 2 winners both teams were 2 bad injuries away from a bad season. They front load the cap with high end players and gamble on a core group staying fit they fill out the rest of the squad with middle to lower end players that can do a job if required but ideally not called on.
    Other teams look at depth and like for like players building a squad creating competition for spots.
    The 3rd is invest in youth and hope it works the panthers are the benchmark for this.

    There is merit in all options its just about what works for the organization

    1. sixties Post author

      I completely understand your analysis and logic, though I reckon every single premiership team is two key injuries away from a bad season. You need your key players to win comps, no matter how a squad is assembled.
      Take out a key player from potential winners and they might scrape into the finals. Throw injuries onto potential finalists and they finish bottom half. Hit a mid table team with missing personnel and you’ve got yourself a cellar dweller.
      Check how many players spoon teams use each year. It’s horrendous.

      1. Offside

        Agreed fully fit teams don’t get the spoon.
        Good depth avoids the spoon.
        A team like the roosters were to loose Teddy,keary,Cronk they would miss tge 8 but avoid the spoon.
        I compare a squad but the top shelf players and the middle of the road players.
        Id say our top shelf players would be considered middle of the road by alot of fans. But in saying that i beleive Moses and Mahonney have the talent to become top shelf rep quality players

        1. Poppa

          Many people laugh at me when I say this, but forget about winning premierships or being obsessed with wooden spoons.
          The process is now in place and a mode of evolution will follow.
          Parra just needs to have goals of top 4 finishes on a consistent basis….probably 4 out of 5 using 5 year segments.
          The junior development and recognition of the club, locality and facility is in the grounding (DNA), then we have astute coaching (cynics can say what they like here but we will have our share of the best coaches over time) and management, probably 3 to no more than 5 year dynasties of coaches to keep the process fresh. Similar with CEO’s.
          Godolphin the worlds leading horse stable owned by an Emirate Shiek has the best system in the racing world, going back over the last 10 years or so in Australia they bought the best stud,had the best stallions and bred the best 2 year olds.
          Last year they decided they needed a freshen and went to the yearling sales as a buyer to freshen there stock and were immediately rewarded with the Magic Millions winner.
          Last year the stable (British arm) won their first Melbourne Cup after trying for over 20 years, they learnt and they evolved in how to do it. Patience, Planning and Persistence were the key displines.
          Why am I talking about horse racing in this context….because Godolphin is a factory with perfection and whilst they don’t win everything, they have created a process of being the best.
          If Parra can build that process with the aim of top 4 finishes in 5 year segments, I can see us winning 3 comps over 10 years and becoming the dominant power of Sydney Rugby league again.

          There is no reason Parramatta cannot do this, the structure is there and the process just has to destill to be the same, build it and they will come…..Build it and it will happen.

          For those of us who were around in the late 70’s and the 80’s it was an occurence as predictable as I just wrote…..only trouble was that we really stuffed after 86…..last year had to happen when you think how we got there, it was never going to be easy.

          1. sixties Post author

            Poppa, as supporters getting to Junior Reps, TCT has had to be patient. We knew what was coming, but we aren’t blind to the big step that the young players will have to make. Having the right senior players around them as mentors is also important. I really like the addition of Junior and Fergo to be part of that.

          2. rowdy roddy

            Poppa, I like your analogy and agree that we do have the structure in place to repeat what has been a successful process in the past for many different organisations. I also believe we have finally built the expanded coaching, strength and fitness components required to identify, direct and nurture our junior/youth development policy. This includes the appointment of Joey Grima to head that junior development to support the likes of Fieldsy, Peter Sharp and others with. How many clubs would have the experience that these guys have at the top levels of our game?
            BA has, I believe, deliberately pursued that crew from the bottom up along with Adrian Jiminez, David Kidwell and Mick Potter from the top down to support guys already here.
            Being the eternal optimist, I tip top 8 a certainty and top 4 a possibility if we get a bit of luck.

          3. sixties Post author

            I like the optimism Rowdy. I think this is a very important season. It should be the platform to build from – actually we need it to be that. The parts are in place. We need senior players to execute and show the young blokes the way.

          4. rowdy roddy

            Agree Sixties, agree wholeheartedly. As you say “the parts are in place” IMO that may well be the defining element for the senior players that are not satisfied with anything less than consistent high achievement.

          1. Poppa

            I don’t believe that some people realise how good this kid can be. I thought watching him last year, that he will be an outstanding player. I say that after watching him destroy Parra’s hopes of an u/20’s GF by what I would call his selfish and exuberant play (over confidence). In saying that is what good young players can do, my guess is it will live in his memory for a long time and he won’t forget that game.
            The last player I saw that had the same confidence in the lower grades and become a totally unselfish player in First Grade was Steve Ella.
            This kid injury free will be just as good…..bookmark these comments because he will be playing State of Origin for Qld before he turns 25.

          2. Kaul Pent

            Spot on poppa!
            I know everyone raves about schiender (excuse my spelling) being the next Cameron smith and I’m not knocking young Kyle at all, but I think everyone is over looking young Mahoney.
            Just because he hasn’t made the same rep honours as him doesn’t mean he is any less of a player.

            Anyone who has known him since his sg ball days has known he is something special.
            This is a kid who has done this the hard way, remote little country town from qld and made it though hard work demtermination and talent.
            If he plays how good he can play, forget origin at 25, he will be lucky not to be the qld number 9 in 2019.

          3. Billy

            I totally agree with you. Mahoney is a special talent and going places. But i think it is also unfair for Schneider to be compared to Smith. Schneider is a talent no doubt. You dont make rep teams and captain them if your not a good player. Plus making Fittlers emerging blues squad. I think the hype has people putting added pressure on a kid who is only 18yo.. He has plenty of time to develop and time will tell if he can or will be able to make the jump to senior footy. At the end of the day Parra are in a great position to have possibly 2 quality young hookers.

          4. sixties Post author

            The comparison to Smith has been with regard to the role he’s played in teams, not saying he will become another Cam Smith. He will become Kyle Schneider, whatever that will be. People have compared his role as a a goal kicking, dummy half who captains his team and is very composed. What Kyle has is a great potential. But give him the chance to develop without undue pressure.

          5. Trevor Campbell

            Yes he was my pick as the number one outstanding player of 2017. Ray Stone was not far behind him. I don’t agree that he was selfish in that grand final, that’s the way he had been playing in other games. In the semi against the Panthers he played the same way and he completely dominated his opposite, the highly rated Wade Egan?? I believe he truly felt he could win the game for them when they were in trouble, as he was able to do in other matches. It is very easy to second guess yourself when things aren’t working but young Reed didn’t do that, he felt he should keep playing the way he had been which had so far been very successful. Of course this is only the way I saw it, which could be a totally wrong opinion. Anyway for such a young player he was outstanding, especially for his give it everything, leave nothing in the tank attitude. As I have stated previously Reed, Ray Stone and Dylan Brown have that great attitude that all footballers should aspire to. Trev.

          6. sixties Post author

            Reed looks to be very confident in his role this year. It augers well for a bloke that required dispensation to play first grade last year.

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