The Cumberland Throw

The Spotlight – Decree Nisi For Eels And Wenty

Farewell to the 2018 season.

Calling it disappointing would be akin to describing Charlie Manson as a troubled soul.

However, the potential for a silver lining should not be ignored. The diabolical results of this year have brought about the Football Club Review. Such a review, and the associated raft of changes/improvements, may not have eventuated from an average or mildly successful season. One recommendation that must be at the forefront of the changes is the divorce of the Eels and the Magpies.

Over the last couple of months I’ve campaigned for an end to the Eels ISP venture with the Wenty Magpies. Without throwing any stones at the Magpies, I’ve maintained that it’s imperative for Parramatta to field a stand alone ISP team. The last few rounds of the competition have only reinforced my stance.

In previous posts, see here and here, I’ve highlighted issues such as pathways and opportunities, player support and mentoring, and importantly developing a culture of Parramatta aspirational players. Undoubtedly these critical issues will have been addressed in the much discussed review (see Clint’s post).

In this post I will address the impact of the venture on the clubs in the Parramatta District Junior Rugby League and the advantages to be gained from an Eels ISP team.

Perception

When you have a powerful junior club such as Wentworthville aligned with the Eels, there is the perception that playing with this club is the pathway to grade football. It matters not whether this perception impacts the parents of the very young, or the parents of the talented teen (even the player himself), the fact remains that it is not conducive to a healthy and balanced junior league.

The perception might impact a large number of talented kids or just a handful. Regardless, this thought should not exist.

Ideally kids will play for their local club. The reality is that the older a player gets, the more likely that “recruitment” to stronger teams will occur. But whether it’s perception or reality, the management within the senior club must do everything in its power to minimise the weak getting weaker and the strong getting stronger.

This is the role that the Eels must take so that their own junior league flourishes and remains the lifeblood of the club.

A Better Model For PDJRL Clubs

As the senior club, the Parramatta Eels can establish a true junior feeder club system.

The Eels Harold Matts, SG Ball, Jersey Flegg and ISP teams should play in Eels jerseys and without any exclusive affiliation with a lone junior club such as Wentworthville.

Players from all junior clubs can continue to have the opportunity to be selected for junior representative footy, and do so without the perception that playing for a particular club is the avenue to selection.

The local clubs which field senior teams in competitions such as Sydney Shield and Ron Massey Cup can become true feeder teams, similar to the arrangement that exists between the Broncos and the Queensland Intrust Super Cup teams. Like that competition, players outside the NRL Top 30 that are not required for ISP or Flegg (this would likely be second tier players or extended the Flegg squad) could be allocated to the Sydney Shield and Ron Massey Cup teams across the PDJRL clubs.

The outcome of this is that these clubs are strengthened by the injection of graded players, and players at these clubs can see a pathway via their own club to the Eels.

The Hills Bulls, Cabramatta, Wenty, Guildford and Mounties are all Parramatta JDRL clubs with teams in these competitions. Mounties have an ISP relationship with Canberra but their juniors are still Parramatta juniors. No other Sydney NRL club has so many local clubs participating in these senior competitions.

It is a unique opportunity.

Venue Solution

Without doubt, the review will identify the need for a Centre of Excellence.

Players leaving the ETC demountables.

As the current ETC at Old Saleyards sits on Crown land, the development of that site is likely to be problematical. Any COE will need greater space than what is currently available in Parramatta.

In the long term, land would need to be found in other locations, probably in north-western Sydney. The plan could incorporate a match venue suitable for lower grade and junior representative football. For that to occur, you would need a professionally laid playing surface, fencing, a small stand with dressing rooms, along with spectator toilets and amenities. Such a smaller venue would probably require 12 months to develop.

In its completed state, a Centre of Excellence at that same site would need at least another three playing fields as well as a COE structure. That eventuality is probably 4-5 years in the making.

In the interim, any cessation of the Wenty venture would require an immediate change of venue for both ISP and Jersey Flegg.

Forget the new stadium. Hell will freeze over before three grades become a regular feature.

I’d hope that we’ll see curtain raisers instead of the dead atmosphere before stand alone NRL matches, but that discussion is best left for a different post.

Therefore, a venue has to be found.

It’s not ideal, but grounds such as Lidcombe, Belmore or St Mary’s could be explored for a single season. Cabramatta, the current Junior Representative venue, could come under consideration, as could school sites such as the Kings School, Parramatta. Ultimately more informed alternatives could be suggested by decision makers at the Eels, but they are not without viable options.

It would only be for one season, so this should not be a stumbling block to the ISP decision.

A Final Word On The Big Picture

After three dedicated posts, it’s prudent to consider an overview of what can be delivered by a Parramatta ISP side.

* Culture

Every step of the pathway process, from under 14s development squads to NRL will be in Parramatta colours. There will be no confusion about Wentworthville being a stop along the way. Rather, players will identify as Eels and will be Parramatta aspirational.

* Pathways and Opportunities

There will be a distinct pathway to the NRL with the Eels that will provide opportunities for Eels junior clubs to become partners in the process. Players who graduate from Jersey Flegg Cup without immediately securing a Parramatta NRL contract can remain within the Eels system via second tier deals or aligning with a local club. Parramatta junior clubs are strengthened via this arrangement.

* Support and Mentoring

Oregon Kaufusi – a 2018 Wenty ISP success story.

Players in the Parramatta ISP team will be provided with continuity of Eels coaching systems and mentoring by senior staff and NRL players. This is critical in that last step before they become or establish themselves as NRL players.

The development of coaches and support staff is just as critical. An Eels ISP team can provide the opportunity for their staff to come under the NRL umbrella and receive development under the tutelage of the NRL coaches and the high performance department.

* Recruitment and Roster

All players would be recruited and contracted by the Eels, be they from the Top 30, second tier or Flegg players.

Second tier contracts could be offered to young Flegg graduates who don’t immediately earn an NRL contract, but are considered worthwhile to keep in the Eels system. They might also be offered to older NRL players unlikely to be selected for the top squad, but valuable for mentoring young players transitioning to senior footy.

Places would be made available for exposing current Flegg players to senior football. This year has seen younger players gain experience in ISP late in the season and a similar process could be adopted moving forward.

Ultimately all team selections would be made in consultation with NRL coaches.

When the decisions are purely football related, and not short term financial considerations, there is very little that supports the continued marriage between Parramatta and Wentworthville. It’s a marriage of inconvenience that’s been in place for 11 years. After the initial title in 2008, this venture has delivered little in the way of competition success or player development.

It’s time to end this dysfunctional union and move towards a better model.

Eels forever!

Sixties

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45 thoughts on “The Spotlight – Decree Nisi For Eels And Wenty

  1. Colin Hussey

    Sixties, a good post in the continuing dream, which I sincerely hope to see come to fruition and the sooner the better

        1. sixties Post author

          I’m passionate about pathways and the Eels jersey. And for all of the reasons I’ve outlined over 3 posts, it needs to happen. I feel like it’s so crucial after this season. The time is now!

  2. Nick

    I think the junior development at the club has been pretty terrible since Brian Smith\fitzy left. I wasn’t the biggest fan of Smith or Fitzgerald by the time they both left what with the no premiership etc but gee those days were sweet in comparison to the last decade. With the board changing and multiple coaches hard to blame one coach or board but all have been equally unsuccessful since and seem to have added to the decline. Is the famed review going to look at junior pathways ? I think as you mentioned I want the pathway for juniors to be them always wearing an eels jersey. I don’t like the current ISP arrangement.

    I know everyone has a story but as recently as this year I know someone coaching a 16 or 17s that played a team from Strathfield who had a good side who apparently had a load of players come from a team coming first in the Parramatta district that were annoyed no one from their side coming first in the Parramatta district got picked for rep teams. I don’t know who the kids are or who they played for in the Parramatta district but when you hear stories like this it is a worry.

    I can see in the 20s and ISP we seem to finally have a crop of players coming through but at this stage most we would have to consider as prospects and time will tell. If parra is goitto win a comp it is going to be down to producing juniors we are probably not going to be able to buy one like the roosters.

    1. sixties Post author

      My stance has been that the arrangement with Wenty has always been illogical – from the coal face football aspects through player development as well as the message and impact at grassroots.
      I can’t comment on players missing out at junior rep level, though I have watched the junior representative trials. Selection obviously brings together the best of the local products along with external players put into the Eels system.
      What I can comment on is that their philosophy agrees with what you – the best way of assembling a roster in a highly competitive player market is via producing quality players in your own backyard. Obviously there are times when a club will look to recruit elsewhere for an elite player where needed, but if you have a system which creates quality players who are aspirational to succeed in your jersey, your roster will be on the right path.

      1. Nick

        I know that story that i gave it is hard to gauge what the truths are as it was on face value from the opposition coach with no specifics i.e. club they came from etc. I do wonder if your solution of having a separate entity for ISP will fix any real or perceived idea of favoritism to i guess potentially larger junior clubs

        I think overall it seems like something is wrong with our junior development and has been for a long time we did have a seemingly endless supply of juniors coming through in the Brian smith era where the issue was who to keep and sometimes guessing that wrong. It wasnt like the players coming through at that time were necessarily from the parra district but a lot were

        Id say generally your juniors are going to be made up of three types of players
        1) players from the parramatta district
        2) players stolen from neighboring district like say moses being poached to tigers or Klemmer going to bulldogs where you probably play those kids in harold matthews and then try and sign them for sg ball or something like that cause they seem like a good prospect.
        3) scouting the best players in the country i.e. from Country NSW, Queensland, Fiji etc

        You seem to be closer to ground level how do you think we are going at getting those different players ? Based on what i have read you are generally positive about the direction it is going but do you think more could be done ? Do we have the right people identifying talent ?

        1. sixties Post author

          Thanks for joining in the discussion Nick. The difficult aspect about this year has been knowing that we were a year or so away from young players being ready to push into the NRL.
          I’ve written about the 8 or so players who have been preparing for the NRL pre-season already. The Flegg team has a number of SG Ball players who have pushed into the squad who have NRL written all over them. The Matts team made the grandfinal and have about 6-7 players with the potential to be NRL players.
          In the last 6-7 years, the Eels haven’t had those types of players. Maybe 1 or 2 with potential each year at most, but this year we debuted 5. It could have easily been 7. I’ll tip 3-4 debuts next year. Anthony Field has been the junior recruitment manager responsible for this group.

  3. Kevin

    I agree completely 60s. Someone will probably deny this but Cabramatta, another powerhouse parra junior club is now aligning itself with the Bulldogs. The list of Cabra juniors to play for the eels is long. Another pathway issue is the favourtism that Bas junior club Rouse Hill receive in Parra junior teams. We have the best juniors but the worst pathways. Im not from either club but have seen the damage firsthand.

    1. sixties Post author

      I had heard this about Cabramatta, but know nothing more than being told it might be happening.
      They’re our juniors and the opportunity is there to create an elite and professional feeder system.
      I can’t comment on favouritism, but if you have a transparent system, with junior clubs all supported by and feeding into the Senior club, the local competitions can only be stronger.

    2. Hamsammich

      Was interested how you came to this conclusion of being bias Kevin so thought I’d have a look at the the trials for the Harold Matthews and SG Ball squads playing next week and from what I can see the distribution looks like this.

      SG Ball
      Rouse Hill – 17
      Wenty – 23
      Guildford – 11
      Cabra – 15
      Mounties – 6
      Canley Vale – 7
      Kellyville – 3
      Parra City – 1
      Outside – 8

      Harold Matthews
      Rouse Hill – 2
      Wenty – 19
      Guildford – 2
      Cabra – 16
      Mounties – 15
      Canley Vale – 6
      Parra City – 2
      Merrylands – 5
      Winston Hills – 7
      Blacktown PCYC – 1
      Toongabbie – 3
      Outside – 5

      So Wenty and Cabramatta are still the main sources of our junior squad trialists (?). Maybe having 17 players in the SG Ball trialling squad for Rouse Hill has more to do with the fact that BA did coach those 17 year olds and thus received better quality coaching than the rest of the kids at a younger age? Maybe this needs further discussion about the coaching done at a junior level than purely just calling it a “bias”?

  4. Phil Mann

    The issue of facilities is interesting when comparisons are made with comparable AFL sides. My perception is that we are miles behind. For example Essendon has two training fields adjacent to each other. One is identical dimensions to the MCG, the other is identical to Etihad Stadium both are first class (minus the grandstands).

    Whilst the dimension of field are not an issue for Parramatta in the NRL, the commitment to providing the best facilities and better than our competitors is at issue.

    1. sixties Post author

      Thanks for your reply Phil. I agree about providing the best. Benchmarking the Eels against successful organisations must be a key component for the review. Whether this is facilities, staffing or systems we can’t just be trying to catch up, we need to be the best.
      The fields at Saleyards aren’t an issue – the two grounds are first class. They have a far better set up than they did 4 years ago. But having demountables surely has a short term life span. They will be adding extra dressing rooms over the off-season and I believe that we are on the path to a COE – but we need a definite time frame on that.
      In the case of ISP, we are competing against a comparable nearby club, Penrith, and they are producing results in ISP – not just with their own ISP team, but the development of NRL ready players.

  5. Anonymous

    Great report again and thank you; some balance and informed comment is terrific to read. It all seems to be a no-brainer; and we only hope the club / directors have some wheels in motion. Bring on the off season and perhaps some strategic player signings, coupled with some juniors coming into the nrl training squad.
    Milo

  6. Michael Formosa

    I’m pretty sure it’s done already. Wenty are gooooooone. Which is the first step of cleaning up this mess we are in.

  7. Matthew B

    👏👏👏👏
    Great article and well written.
    I’ve never been a fan of having our players playing in and for a different club and colours.
    Return to the old days of when you could turn up and watch parra players playing reserves in eels colours. Support the club who the players are signed with.
    Put the eels club first and have the jnrs n co have dreams of playing for the eels n not a feeder club.

    1. sixties Post author

      Spot on Matthew. Let’s make our players Parra aspirational. Let’s have the players that don’t make NRL in a round, still get to wear the blue and gold not black and white. There should not be a disconnect one step away from NRL.

      1. Rowdy

        The thought you’ve put into your arguments are quite inspiring to say the least. The hope that they will be picked up during the review with the respect they are due is another thing altogether. Our great hope there is the unaligned independence of the reviewers. IMO there is absolutely no reason not to take your own assessment of the impact that power of identity will have upon all people who call themselves Parra fans, from aspiring youngsters and their parents to us old died in the wool stalwarts!

        Sixties, the way you’ve dissected the detrimental factors of being aligned with a particular junior club has great merit and is supported by history dating back to when I played a couple of junior seasons with Wenty in the 1960’s. Ironically everyone was recruited to Wenty, yet senior club officials and junior coaches at Wenty openly espoused hatred towards Parra for not supporting their elevation to NSWRL. The one thing I might add to that is the envy it creates in other strong junior clubs. Clubs that might feel their juniors are more likely to receive a favorable leg-up into NRL through an alternative district pathway like that proposed by Kevin’s comments re Cabramatta/Canterbury above. I should also confess, I have no problem with other clubs giving our over supply of junior footy talent an opportunity. I’d just prefer it to be after we’ve developed, identified and kept the best talent for ourselves rather than driving some of that talent away through poor decision making on management pathway structures or penny pinching budgets.

        1. sixties Post author

          Thanks for the comment Rowdy. As you know, I have no grievance with Wenty. I’ve had relatives who’ve played for the club, I go to Ringrose regularly to cheer for them, including their RM Cup and Shield teams. But, I’ve also heard of local players who were graded by Parra but due to junior rivalry, hated Wenty. It’s just an odd scenario for a pathway to align to a single junior club at such a critical step – one step before NRL.
          I’ve tried to cover as many bases in my argument as I could, hence it being a three part series of posts. I’m certain that there are probably some aspects that I hadn’t considered too, but I’d be surprised if the review missed anything.
          I’m very hopeful of the outcome of the review.

          1. Colin Hussey

            A short opinion I knew some wenty players and one lived a couple of doors away from me in the 70’s nice block and fair player, did his knee and career playing for wenty on their paddock of the time which had thick kikuyu grass and heavy runners in part, (typical of many old fields really terrible when compared to today) his sprigs got caught in a runner and snapped his knee ligaments, beyond playable repair.

            Anyway as I was an eels supporter, he often commented about how the Wenty club were always considered the junior club of little relevance, I actually during those times if I went to the Wenty leagues I did not show my PLC membership badge as I usually was treated as not being welcome there, as we lived far enough away was able to sign in using my Drivers licence. It was a very weird and unpleasant experience.

            When the eels won their first premiership around 4 of us all eels supporters couldn’t get into the PLC so went over there for dinner prior to driving back to Gerringong & Berry, when we got there, there appeared to be little celebration of the eels win, while no open put down it certainly was very low key to me.

            My thinking though in many ways was the Wenty wanted to be the senior club as the eels had never won a premiership and were incapable of it while the believe at Wenty was that they could win it and keep doing so, so there was a degree of self puffed superiority there.

          2. sixties Post author

            Such rivalries, even at a junior level, just add to the mismatch. Really, it wouldn’t matter which junior club was aligned. As soon as you align with one, you rob yourself of the opportunity to create that true local feeder system.

  8. The Captain

    You had me at “Farewell to the 2018 season”.

    The lack of a CoE really is a conundrum. Given all that’s happened out at Penrith since 2015 it’s quite unbelievable that we’ve been so slow to respond.

    Culture has been a pervasive problem for our club, and whilst the fanbase has an abundance of culture and pride, it hasn’t seemed to foster in the team setup as much. We need to turn young recruits and future talent into fans first and players second. We need the same pride that comes with a Baggy Green or a NSW SoO jersey so young talent bleed blue and gold. Culture starts young.

    When you play for Parra at any level you should be playing for Parra. Blue and gold. Aspire to the top grade. Have fantastic facilities that foster and grow talent. We have an enviable nursery, surely it’s time we took hold of it again. We’re not the Roosters, we will never buy a premiership winning team. As much as Hayne made some questionable decisions in his career, you could always tell he was an Eel. He couldn’t even bring himself to play against us. We need to capture and bottle that pride to build our future premiership winning team.

    CoE. Yes. Blue and Gold for all grades. Yes. A focus on building an Eels culture. Yes! Exploit our nursery. Yes!!

    I’m hoping this review helps out some of these tangible plans in place, and soon. Here’s to next season…or maybe the one after…

    1. sixties Post author

      Thanks for the reply Captain.
      The problem with Saleyards was that we were in dire need of upgrading from Richie Benaud training, so the move was initially tremendous. Unfortunately there were no plans and no finances that allowed for any upgrade to a COE. I’d heard about a two storey structure to be built but I now doubt that it was ever a real consideration given it’s Crown Land there.
      If you base your training around demountables you have to do so whilst still being on a path to a true home. That just hasn’t been the case. I’m hopeful that it is now.
      Your analogy to a baggy green cap or an Origin jersey is spot on. You can’t keep them all, but you’d hope we keep the right ones. When our development system works we will even lose good first graders to other clubs. It will probably happen from our current group. As long as we meet our own needs first.

  9. Ant

    Surely this is a no-brainer for the club & would be one of the first things picked up in the review. I’ve never understood the reasoning behind it apart from saving a few bucks.
    I was listening to Gus Gould earlier in the year talk about this very topic. He told a story of when he signed Billy Kikau from the Cowboys. One of Billy’s main gripes was he was playing QLD cup for one of the cowboys 3 feeder clubs & he didn’t feel like he was part of the cowboys set-up. He had different coloured training gear, coaches etc & even though he was signed by Cowboys he didn’t really feel like a Cowboys player.
    Gus told him come & sign with the Panthers. Even at ISP level you will always play in Penrith colours, you train next to the NRL guys & you play home games at Panthers stadium and a lot of times before the NRL game. He said it was one of the main attractions to get his signature & he couldn’t understand other teams especially our not having their own ISP team.
    Fingers crossed this gets changed before season 2019 kicks off.

    1. sixties Post author

      That’s a great example about Kikau, Ant. Obviously I can’t understand the logic. Watching Norths representing Souths at both Flegg and ISP is insane too.
      I reckon change can happen soon.

  10. Longfin Eel

    Just a couple of thoughts:
    With the price of land (and also availability) a major issue in North West Sydney, finding a suitable place to build a COE could be very problematic. It might be better for the club to align with the council (Parramatta or Hills) to use a council ground but build better facilities that can be used by the community in some way. Hills do this with some sports clubs able to build (and own) their own club house on council land. One option could be to use SOPAC – there are existing facilities, but they probably need upgrading anyway as they haven’t been touched in 18 years. I’m sure the club could come to an agreement with Sydney Olympic Park, and this would also benefit other sports.

    If Parramatta have their own ISP team, would this mean adding in that team to the competition? What would NSWRL have to say about having Parra and Wenty in the same competition? Would Wenty voluntarily remove themselves from ISP to make way for Parra? I somewhat doubt that.

    1. sixties Post author

      Longfin, if we parted company with Wenty I don’t think they would stay in this competition without aligning with another NRL club – they just couldn’t compete.
      Absolutely correct about council involvement. When I was referring to North-Western Sydney my thinking was in conjunction with a council as such a facility would generate income and a community venue for the council.

  11. John Eel

    Further to what Phil Mann was saying about AFL COE’s, the West Coast Eagles have committed $60 Mil to theirs which dwarfs anything seen in the NRL. They also have 2 fields with one replicating the new Perth Stadium and the other the MCG.

    I wonder how effective this is given that the dimensions would be the same but the wind effect which is important in AFL would be different. Maybe it is a bit of show.

    I don’t think that anyone does it as good as the Americans. That is where you can learn something.

    1. sixties Post author

      John, one of the TCT boys, Chris, visited the Dallas Cowboys set up. It was quite phenomenal. Obviously the scale is something that couldn’t be replicated in the NRL, but every aspect of their operation seeks to generate income. Eg their medical department is available to the public, their training grounds have corporate facilities overlooking the fields so that corporate training/seminars etc can take place whilst watching the team train. They have an indoor training field which is a small arena utilised by local high schools for their matches, thereby maintaining community relationships.
      That requires a major investment within a COE, but it shows the business strategies involved at that level of professional sport.

  12. Graz

    Thanks Sixties. Let’s hope your logic is seen by those who will make the decisions. Keep up the good work/fight.

  13. conway

    Sorry….re – posting because I put my post in the wrong place :

    Interesting………Souths have just declared their intention to contest the ISP cup as South Sydney and I’m sure identity and a genuine outline of pathways are their reasons for so doing as well. Our integrity as a club has some holes at the moment and sorting these out is not helped by our involvement with another club albeit one with a long history in the district. While I have full knowledge that nothing stays the same and neither should it, I loved the days of watching three grades…….I knew who was coming through and had a more realistic attachment to my beloved club. It is not so much lack of success which tests this attachment these days but more the lack of plain transparency in who actually is the club and do they consider it any responsibility to present the club in its best light !
    Not just the results but at times the perceived efforts of the combined Parramatta – Wentworthville endeavour have left a lot to be desired…….all the best sixties

    1. sixties Post author

      Thanks Conway. That confusion of identity impacts everyone – players and supporters. I watch lots of footy at Wenty but miss the three grades match days. I could never understand Souths playing their lower grades under the banner of a different foundation club.
      I also think that far too many supporters don’t get the chance to follow the progress of younger players. I see people on social media calling for the introduction of certain players to first grade, but they barely know about them or have possibly never watched them play. They are going on what others are saying. And it’s not their fault. The Flegg team barely played home games this year. The ISP team had RM Cup players throughout the year.

  14. Parramatta Tragic

    A quality article sixties and a quality thread that follows. Is there an opportunity to make public submissions to the review? If so, this would make a fine addition. We have a quality board in place and these issues are hopefully being closely looked at. When you see a great idea, one of the features is you thinking “this is so good why isn’t this being done already?” and your article has this quality. Will the NRL have to approve such a restructure or is this purely a Parra decision? The politics of envy will come into it unless it is a purely Parra decision.
    Now, if you could please write an article on the benefits of nuclear energy, we could all go back to turning on the air con and the lights and the pool pump……….

    1. sixties Post author

      Hi mate,
      I believe that this would be a NSWRL decision to accept a Parra ISP as the comp is administered by them.
      Given that pathways are part of the review, I know that this ISP decision has come up.
      I appreciate your vote of confidence. I’m just trying to raise awareness amongst supporters and the more that talk is generated, the more it comes to the fore.
      I honestly believe that the right people are getting on board with this and it’s now a matter of logistics.

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